The importance of knowing c++ for web application development [closed] - c#

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Closed 11 years ago.
I'm a php developer and I want to broaden my knowledge base by learning a higher language (java, c#, c++). My specialty is in building web applications (ria etc). I'm trying to think of the appropriate path to take (hedging my bets so to speak) in terms of which language I should be focusing on. I love open source technology but at the same time C# seems to be getting a lot of notoriety. Despite the newer technologies available there still remains c++ which is the staple for many popular vendors including google and facebook (hip hop) in building scalable and robust cross platform apps.
Can anyone offer suggestions as to how I should be looking at this. Should I go Java, C# or C++). They all take time to master and I just want to choose a specialty.
Thanks

I find that I do less stuff in C++ than I used to. It has its place, but that place is growing smaller.
If you want to make a connection with web development, c++ probably isn't what you want. I'd agree with other posters. Java might be a good choice.
For my web-related projects, I've had a lot of fun with python and Django. I'm guessing Ruby on Rails would also be a possible thing to look at.
Since you mention scalable and robust... a lot of the big scalable and robust sites started out with other technologies and only switched when the massive traffic actually required it. Getting things finished is often better than making something scalable that never is finished.

C++ is not as popular for web development as PHP, Python, Java or C#. But it still can be successfully be used for web development using frameworks like CppCMS.
So if you generally want to learn more web technologies I would not suggest you using C++, but if you want to learn and explore new technologies it is very important language to learn as it opens very different kind of world.

C++ only comes in play when you work on large applications where you need low-level language features to write back end with performance in mind.
Java and C# are meant to boost your productivity. First of all, by taking care of memory management and offering a very functional class library.
Java seems to be a less actively developed language, due to the vendor position. It has however the largest ecosystem in terms of various libraries and third party products. Also cross-platform. Java jobs are plenty, but tend to pay less.
C# language is being quite actively developed, to the point that sometimes annoys developers (who say they don't manage to keep up). Through this however you get a modern and powerful language including huge .NET class library, which makes developers very productive and on average very happy. It is however not cross-platform (except for Mono experiment) and at some point of your growth you may have to pay for licenses (Visual Studio IDE above Express edition and SQL Server (if you use it and if you exceed 4 GB database limit)). Jobs are usually fewer but pay more.

For back-end development, I'd go with Java. It will give you the most options in terms of platforms. C# is a nice language, but still essentially limits you to Windows (Don't know much about the Mono port, maybe someone else can elaborate).
C++ is rearely used for web application development.

I would suggest Java there are some great APIs for web applications out there.
I have used Google Web Toolkit (GWT) in the past and found it a powerful API for web apps

Choose the language in which you feel more well, it will be one that will bring success.

If you are looking to improve your marketability, you definitely need to learn c#. C++ is my favorite language and I use it all the time to write back-end servers; but because it extends development times very few projects require it as a backend to a website. These days if you can code in PHP, C#, and in some cases Java then you have pretty much anything you need for 99% of web application developer jobs.
If you desire to branch into much larger niche markets (like working for Google), then C++ is definitely where you want to go; otherwise you'll be better served with C#.

Assuming you want to stay within the web development realm I agree with most on here and would go with Java. After getting comfortable with Java I would start looking into Groovy (and Grails) which is starting to gain a following in larger companies. Also, once you are comfortable the transition into C# isn't bad (that is what I am doing right now and it reminds me of Microsoft's awesome version of Java).

C++ is rarely used in web development, it's mainly on the desktop. And with my experience with C++, that would seem like an exorbitant amount of code just to make simple things appear on screen.
While Java is a decent web language, there is still alot of overhead. Most websites currently use PHP. Its powerful, easy to use, and easy to learn. Their isn't a large development cycle, and no complicated WAR and EAR deployment. And changes appear instantly, not like some Java based web servers who take minutes or hours to update.
If your scared of PHP, don't be! It runs extreamly popular sites like Facebook, and powers popular web programs like PhpBB, InvisionBoard, Drupal, Joomla, and Wordpress. Clearly php is doing something right or it wouldn't be all over the internet.

I would definitely take the Java/J2EE route. It's currently the most popular choice for web applications.

My impression (from my limited vantage point) is that C++ is becoming the next COBOL or C. That is, an enormous base of legacy applications but used for new development less and less frequently. If you expect to be writing new code rather than maintaining older code, I'd focus on something else.

If you're just looking to broaden your knowledge, then yes, C++ is a good language to sharpen your teeth on. If you're looking to use it in web development, then no, go with either Java or C# since C++ is rarely used in web development.

Do you realize there's no correct answer for this?
Since you seems to be more fond to C++ I would suggest yo go for it.
Personally and subjectively speaking of course, I think Java still would be the best choice.
There not much I can say about Java if you think is not worth it ( or the other way around, there nothing I can say bad about Java if that's what you want to learn next )
So there's no way to have a correct answer for this.
And, we all know the only correct answer is Java ;) </sarcasm>

My vote would be for both C++ (in the first place) and Java. And yes, I look at it from the Web Developer perspective. The reason for that being that things recently have been moving slowly but surely towards the cloud computing.
Notice how browsers start supporting websockets. Socket connections will eventually replace AJAX and Comet and will provide for more responsive and more robust web applications. The reason to learn C++ and/or Java is for writing backend scripts that run as daemons and service your web socket connections. Daemons in PHP are possible but not as fast or robust as C++ compiled apps.
At this time I'm a Linux supporter (having had extensive background with Windows servers and .NET) and I have and will continue suggesting clients going with Linux over Windows. You get more reliable user concurrency on Linux over Windows on the same equipment. I feel that the cloud will be split between the two, but employers who are knowledgeable will go with Linux. It's also our job to educate them. This is my reasoning for learning C++ at this time.
I just had to write a daemon for maintaining a 24x7 connection to a text messaging aggregate (users text operators who respond to multiple connections from a web interface), I went with C++. But I also plan to familiarize myself with Java, because of the huge available Java code base out there. It may come in handy.

Related

ArcGIS Development.Java vs .Net(C#)

I'm a computer scientist and i've been working with Java mostly to develop applications.
I just been hired in a company that makes projects with ArcGIS.
The company has hired na electrical engineer to develop the arcGIS projects.
This engineer used to customize ArcMap with VBA and lately extensions with .NET and C#.
I want to take a new path and start using the ArgGIS Engine with Java.
I want to know if this choice is right.Has any of you been developing with Engine-Java and how difficult is it(The use of JNI -for which i have little knoledge- is making it more difficult? ).
Also I have a little experience with .NET and c++ but not C#.I will have a big learning curve with this path?
Also which are the advantages and disadvantages and limitations of each method?
Hard question to answer.
The general opinion seems to be that C# is easy to learn if you know Java.
IMHO your biggest problem is going to be learning and manipulating the massive, convoluted ArcGIS object model. Choice of language is probably secondary.
My instinct is that C#/.Net is probably more popular for desktop programming with ArcGIS, so you'll get more community support with that. But I don't know. There's clearly a lot of folks using Java with ArcGIS - I suspect it's mostly server work, but I'm not sure. You might be able to figure out how popular ArcEngine with Java is by checking out the ESRI forum activity.
EDIT. You probably need to decide whether learning C# is going to be valuable in future to your employer (and your career), and balance that against some assessment of whether using Java with ArcGIS engine is unusual, and therefore more risky. Only you can answer the first question.
I absolutely in all respects suggest you stick with C#/.Net over Java. Last time i looked (take this with a grain of salt), the Java Library + COM inter-opt done with ArcGIS is pretty slow when working with certain elements (Arrays, oh god the arrays), also i am pretty sure Java will most likely be the next language to be put onto the cutting block in the near future(VB6 is now getting the axe). Also ESRI's java community is pretty tiny compared to their C#/.NET (however about 50 times bigger then their C++ :()
I would go for .NET and C#
If you know java and C++ than C# must be easy. You will just need to find your way through the .net framework that's all.
You will be safe with C# if you ever have to make some rich internet application in combination with arcgis and Silverlight (C#).

Is there a reason I should not start with C#

I think I'm leaning toward C# and .net as a concentration language for learning web development. I would like to learn good programming fundamentals and I've looked at pretty much everything else. The four I've narrowed it down to have been C#, Python, Ruby and PHP. Is there a reason to stay away from C# (and I don't think the cost issue would really apply to my solo-developer situation but I could be totally wrong). Any thoughts?
I realize that these are all great languages so I'm not trying to ask which is the best overall. However, would Ruby be a viable alternative for a first language or does it have too much "magic under the hood" coupled with Rails, and unorthodox methodologies? I do like what I've seen with the language.
This is likely to result in a flamewar but I think C# is a pretty good language to start with for Web Development.
It is a full featured object oriented language and is statically typed and compiled. It's very well documented and has a huge developer community.
If you absolutely have to run on Linux/Apache and do not want to use Mono, that would be a reason not to use C#. Other than that, I don't think there is a compelling reason not to, particularly with ASP.NET MVC, which lets you move away from the WebForms model.
This is not to say that WebForms is necessarily bad but some might object to WebForms as it introduces abstractions that are not inherent in other web development platforms.
If you go with C# for web development, depending on your experience with web technology, I'd heartily recommend starting with ASP.NET MVC before ASP.NET Web Forms.
ASP.NET Web Forms is the original style of building ASP.NET applications, and tries to abstract a lot of the details. It allows you to build applications without realising what's happening under the hood (post data, state management). In my opinion, these abstractions although making things easy at first begin to "leak" when you get into more complicated scenarios (as this tutorial proves).
ASP.NET MVC on the other hand makes it easier to build web sites that are a lot "closer to the metal" while still keeping you productive. If you want absolute control over the resulting HTML and aren't afraid of things like cookies, form tags, post and query string data, then you might enjoy ASP.NET MVC a lot more.
Of course it would be beneficial to know both. But if I was starting now, I'd probably start with MVC and move to Forms (then realise how bad it is and move back :)).
There are no "best language over all". You use one tool for the purpose it has been made, that's why there are several tools.
Since your question is "why not learn C#", I'd say :
If you plan to work with other OS then Windows (Mono cannot compare).
If work in an env or with people not .net friendly (e.g : bank, scientists)
If you work in an env or with people that are expert in another good tech (never underestimate the use of a good master).
If you think Free Software matters so much that using a MS product is not worth it.
If you don't like MS Visual Studio (working in c# without a good IDE is a pain).
If You plan to program something that .net is not suited for (e.g embedded devices, scripting, real-time, fault tolerant system, AI, etc).
If you are a web dev and can't afford a Windows Server Licence.
If you want to learn programming with the very basics, including simple functions and quick and dirty scripts.
Now, I program in Php, Python, Java and C#. Python is my language of choice, but c# is really the first MS programming tool that seduced me : it's clean and efficient. Really, it's about what you want to do, not a question of religion.
Make YOUR choice.
That's said, C# sucks and Python rocks.
I agree C# is a pretty complete language, it's syntax is clean and extensible. There's a huge amount of web resource already available, but and it's a big but, it effectively ties you to windows as your platform. For web especially that's an important consideration. On the desktop windows is king, but for web servers the market it isn't nearly so dominant.
Another side issue, if you're looking at rich media on the web you have to consider Flash and/or Silverlight. If you go C# then you're someway to using Silverlight without learning a different language.
Don't worry about the cost. The compiler is free to use, along with the rest of the Fx SDK, and you can even download Visual Studio for free.
The disadvantage to learning C# is that it ties you to a proprietary platform and software stack. Now, there is Mono, which does a good job of implementing much of C# and .Net, but the primary and most complete implementation is Microsoft's which is non-free.
I have not used C# enough to debate it's technical merits with respect to Ruby or Python. I can say, however, that learning to use and even contribute back to free software can be quite educational, in addition to the other benefits (discussed in length elsewhere) that free software provides.
c# is a good language to start with because:
It is a very good and very clean language
It has an excellent library (.NET framework). This is one of the most important things to consider when choosing a language.
It is very popular, you'll always be able to find the answer you are looking for from the community.
If you know c#, you pretty much know VB.NET.
c# is syntactically similar to Java. Learning c# won't teach you Java's libraries, but it will significantly reduce the learning curve if you want to enter the Java camp.
c# is syntactically similar to c++. Again, it uses a different library and unlike c++ you get memory management; but the learning curve should be somewhat reduced if you decide to play with c++.
As for the web...
ASP.NET webforms does a lot of magic for you. ASP.NET MVC (just released) does almost no magic for you. For learning, MVC is the better choice.
C# is a great language to use. And since you are using it via the web and not desktop applications for example, you don't have to worry about being multi-platform since the code is run on your server and the output delivered to the clients. With that said, you will have to find Windows hosting (which can sometimes be a bit more expensive) or use mono (which isn't exactly the most updated software out there). The downsides are minimal though, grab a copy of the express edition and go for it!
I think the cost of deployment might be a different thing, i.e. if your project needs to scale horizontally, and add more servers to load balance or even for geographically distributed servers. Usually the windows hosting will run a bit more than linux (without even considering the flame wars reasons).
C# is fine for starting if you are doing web development. However, I recommend that you don't start programming with web development. Web development is hard to get right. Way harder than little command line things. I recommend that you get some good experience programming for the command line, and then move up to GUI, and then move on to the web. The web has a whole bunch of things you have to worry about. You have to know 3 languages (HTML, JS, C#(or insert your server side language here)). Plus you have to worry about all the browser quirks and stuff. And that's without even getting into databases. Which is usually used in most web applications, but opens up a whole other can of worms.
Considering all the answers so far, I thought I'd look at all four languages mentioned.
While I've done a lot of development in PHP, and sadly continue to do so, I think PHP was never a great language (though it had a few great elements) and these days there's not much point picking it up. It remains extremely easy to get into but I think in general, PHP is a "bad habit".
Python is a great language, but to me, Ruby is all that Python is and a bit more. Personally I would go for Ruby.
C# is also a great language, but while I haven't used C# enough to say anything with confidence, I feel that Ruby is a better choice.
No reason in particular to stay away from C#. It's as good a language as any. Stackoverflow uses it for example, so it works on a successful website, and you can get jobs programming in it.
The proprietary thing would be a consideration if you were programming as a hobby or off your own limited budget, or you wanted to contribute to the development of the compiler/language. I'm guessing neither of these are the case. (Edit: as others have pointed out, open source environments for C# exist.)
It depends on a couple of things. C# and .Net is populate and th tools are really very easy (complared to Java! Java developer talking here...) but Windows Hosting is expensive vs LAMP (which include Ruby, Python and PHP).
For me it all depends on the tool that you want to use. For web services etc I would use C# but for a simple website PHP since its easy.
It also depends on the job market of your location... here in South Africa you get alot more C# jobs and not much PHP etc. Off course if your a freelance you will struggle to find work.
For me Ruby again is good for my own person stuff but you don't get any Ruby jobs here.
My advice? Learn the differences for yourself. Play around with both of them. If you have a project in mind, write a prototype for it in them. You'll always be at the mercy of other peoples' biases otherwise.
ASP.net (C#) and Ruby on Rails are used in high-profile sites, so you can't go too wrong with either one. Might I also suggest that you try out Python programming with django? It's what I tend to prefer for web programming.
I'm a C# .Net developer and I think it's great, but I'll highlight a danger in the Asp.Net WebForms. It is unlike the majority of other web frameworks and does A LOT of magic under the covers. As others have said ASP.Net MVC is probably more inline with other web frameworks (Rails for example). Web Forms abstracts a lot of the nuts and bolts of webdev away which If you want to be web developer you'll end up needing to know. So yes C# is great but I'd start with MVC and then look at web forms possibly. Also looking at other languages and frameworks is highly encouraged there's always stuff to learn.
Commercially I am a C# developer. I love C#. C# is a great strongly typed language. With Resharper installed I can build my ideas in code rapidly and flex it to my will.
When I go home each evening I use Ruby. Even though I have no refactoring support (snif.) I find I am much more productive in Ruby than in C#.
I worked writing a large ASP.Net application for a couple of years. We implemented MVC to try to detangle the view from the model. It always felt like I was fighting the framework, not working with it. The latest .Net frameworks for doing web application are based on Rails... just a couple of years behind. I love the language. I love the CLR. I'm not too keen on .Net.
I find the ruby community to be friendly and vibrant. The rails open source community produces loads of tutorials and plugins that make getting up to speed easy and putting your application together simple.
Another thing to consider (as far as choosing a language to learn) is that ruby is an Object Oriented language. Even classes are objects. C# is a Class Oriented language, ie. it provides you one way to create objects.. define a class first. (not totally true.. you can generate assemblies in memory using codedom.. but that is by no means easy).
This may seem like a subtle point, but there is a difference.. and until you get experience with an OO language like ruby or smalltalk it's not obvious what that is. Once you have felt the freedom of building objects by mixing in functionality at runtime etc. you find that all the 'work-around's you had to do in C# disappear. Not having the safety net of interfaces does seems scary at first.
In all, I'd learn ruby..
If you are new to programming (totally) I'd start with http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
Then I would learn BDD (RSpec) and get test infected as soon as possible.
Then I'd consume rails tutorials and screen casts until my eyes popped
The only problem is .. if you start with ruby then later go to C# you'll find yourself going "Aaaaagh! This would be so much easier to do in ruby" all the time. I know I do.
It really depends on what you are trying to achieve. I program in both and to be brutally honest, if you are trying to make a career out of programming, I get paid twice as much for .NET programming. The types of clients that I do PHP dev work for are not the types that pay a lot (PHP is often chosen based on saving some $$$). .NET seems to be much more entrenched in larger corporations.
Just my observation...
No disadvantages really except that you will be unwelcome in those social groups (and even geographical regions) that pose themselves against the "evil Microsoft".
The language (better .NET platform) is quite good. One important thing is that it is being very actively developed causing some people trouble keeping up. But I'd rather have rapid development compared to year-long stagnation.
You might consider checking what employers in your area prefer as a technology stack.
Considering licensing costs you can consider the following: If it is a small site you can use Visual Studio Express/SQL Server Express for free and it will be sufficient. If you come up with some major heavy trafficked project you will likely to find a way to make revenues and cover licensing costs.
Learning C# is great in 2009.
Way back in the day, when I entered the professional world, the language landscape was very different. I coded professionally in C and Modula 3 (Pascal replacement language).
My point is that I would plan for the technical landscape to change over time, and plan for that in your professional career development.
Learning multiple platforms is a great way to accomplish this. For example, you could have C#/.NET as your primary skill, but also work with JAVA. When a new platform emerges, you could add it as your transition or backup skillset.

C# on Linux - Anyone got an opinion based on experience using mono?

Is it worthwhile learning C# if you are a Linux user? There is Mono but it seems destined to always be behind the curve with the constant threat of MS action if they start to lose money.
Currently I am leaning more towards Java as its is fully GPLed and there are no major threats of software patents. It already has a big oss community behind it and has a solid reputation on the server whereas C# still needs to prove itself there.
The big advantage for C# programmers is that they are cheaper than Java developers. I also wonder exactly how portable C# code is though. Can one simply take a C# app written to target Mono and run it on windows?
I've written a number of C# command-line programs, specifically to run as distributed simulation engines, that were targeted for Ubuntu. They work perfectly there or on Windows.
It's hard to say what the future holds, but C# is a powerful language and I think it's worth learning even just for our personal growth. I despise Windows myself but have been writing C# for a while (for Windows mostly) since it pays the bills.
Novell uses Mono extensively for their Linux applications and I think that their relationship with Microsoft adds some weight to the idea that .NET for Linux will stick around.
Here's a list of some of the companies using Mono.
"on the server whereas C# still needs
to proof itself there"
You do know MySpace is built ontop of ASP.NET, right? Millions of hits a day running off a C# backend.
Sorry for the flame-bait, but I've personally had more portability success with mono, than java. Not a blanket statement, just my experience.
This question has already been asked and answered many times on SO.
Is Mono ready for prime time?
Why Use Mono?
Given your scenario, me personally I would learn Java, as you will find the transition into C# further down the line, quite smooth. Also having Java under your belt is a very good thing. I would say Java is much more portable than C# although you have the option of using the Compact Framework, which will be quicker to bootstrap with your program.
I work for a company that uses both Java and C#. I prefer C# because I think Visual Studio blows away Eclipse, and I just like the language better. However, I think you might do better learning Java in your case. You have more flexibility both for your project and career-wise. You can learn C# anytime.
C# is a nice language, and I find it much easier to work with than C/C++, especially for GTK applications.
I also think that learning C# would be a much better investment than learning Java. I'm saying this for no other reason than my personal taste, but I also honestly and objectively believe that C# will have a better future than Java.
As for running Mono apps on Windows, you can usually do this without a hassle, but if it's a GUI application, you will either have to create a Windows version that uses Winforms, or your users will have to install GTK for Windows. Either way, your applications will have a much better look and feel than Java applications on both platforms.
Finally, I don't think M$ will take legal action against Mono anytime soon.
It works very nice. IMHO you should use Mono from the development site (www.go-mono.com) rather than version provided with your distribution.
Also you could try dry-running it with VMWare machine that is also avaliable on the official site.

Looking for feedback from people that have gone from 100% web development to winforms

I have been a web developer for my entire development career. Nearly 100% microsoft focused the entire time. I have been using .Net, both C# and VB.Net, since beta. I now find myself in a position to where I have the opportunity to start doing some WinForms development in C# using the 3.5 framework. As with anything new, I am excited about the learning opportunity in front of me.
I am curious if anyone has any suggested books, articles, feedback, etc on the topic of transitioning from web development to winforms in the .Net world.
I think it goes without saying that the paradigms are very different. I really enjoy C# because of how easy it is to write great windows software.
Start by getting into the IDE and creating a real but small project. One of my first C# projects was a light weight budget program. That took me into many areas of C#, from XML handling to custom windows controls, to debugging, and more.
Experience is the best teacher. Take time to look at the function lists, and peruse the documentation. Get a feel for what is in the thousands of classes that make up .NET.
Reading books can be nice, but getting your hands dirty (in conjunction with a good book) is far more effective.
Set a goal and go for it, you will have no problem learning all about it. Don't be afraid to try things and take risks -- it helps you learn the system.
If you are moving from Web to Windows, there is a some significant differences between the two enviroments. Some good and some are bad. If your .Net based and moving to 3.5 look into WPF since it is the best of both worlds for Web developers converting right now.
I do know of some common mistakes made by web developers making the crossover. They would include:
Opening database connections on every form and every database calls. (In Windows Bad)
There is no ViewState concept or Stateless concept in Windows
I am sure there is a few more that can be added but right now I can't think of an exact list.
I do agree with gahooa, look at doing a small project and read as much as possible on the subject. Approach it as if you never developed before, and the skills you gained over the years will automatically kick in when needed.

What is a good desktop programming language to learn for a web developer? [closed]

As it currently stands, this question is not a good fit for our Q&A format. We expect answers to be supported by facts, references, or expertise, but this question will likely solicit debate, arguments, polling, or extended discussion. If you feel that this question can be improved and possibly reopened, visit the help center for guidance.
Closed 10 years ago.
I'm want to learn a desktop programming language, preferably C, C++ or C#. I'm a PHP/HTML/CSS programmer and I would like to get into desktop applications. I need something pretty powerful and I would like to be able to create applications with Windows GUI's.
What would the Stack Overflow community recommend? Is there any knowledge I should have before diving into these languages?
edit:
A web programmer wants to create Windows applications and you recommend C? What's wrong with you people?!
/edit
Obviously C#.
C# will be easier to get into and will let you build Windows applications using WinForms or WPF and all the new Microsoft toys in .NET. If you know your way around PHP, you should already be familiar with the syntax, object oriented concepts, exception handling, etc.
I suggest you don't complicate your life with C and definitely not with C++ if all you want is to create Windows GUIs. They do provide a good educational experience and they are useful for more advanced things (cross platform development using other toolkits for instance) but at the price of a steeper learning curve and reduced productivity.
Also, if you are a web developer, C# is the only language among the 3 options that you can (realistically, heh) use for the web. ASP.NET is not a bad framework and might be worth investigating too.
"I need something pretty powerful and I would like to be able to create apps with Windows GUI's."
For rich windows GUIs, I'd be tempted to look at the "xaml" variants: WPF (full desktop) and Silverlight (like flash) - this will give you the latest tools etc, and a lot of styling power.
For this, C# would be the primary choice. Managed C++ is an option, but it's more work.
Take a brief look at C first, to the level of writing a few tutorial programs. C is small, well defined and the definite language definition (Kernighan & Ritchie - The C Programming Language) is only a couple of hundred pages long. Although getting your head around pointers and recursion can be a challenge the language itself is sufficiently small that it's possible to know the language completely. One of the pleasures of writing C is it's not too hard to reach the level where one can just code without having to continually refer to documentation to see how to use little know feature x or library function y. Think of learning C as putting the foundations in.
However to actually write useful applications you'll want to use C++ or C#. Which depends on what you wish to write. C# will probably score in most business-orientated cases because of garbage collection and general ease of use, but C++ would score for high performance, low level, or game domains. There's also vast amounts of C++ library code available which can be leveraged relatively easily (and pure C code too which is easily adapted). If your aim is to write something with a particular problem in mind then the availability of such could most likely offset the higher overhead C++ has in just getting things done.
By way of example on this I did a filtered search on 'image' on Sourceforge and returned the following project count
C# : 139
C++: 569
And even with something purposely more business-orientated C++ still scores higher - 'finance'
C# : 12
C++: 32
With anything mathematical or technical the score is heavily weighted against C# - 'fractal'
C# : 4
C++: 44
C : 24 <-- (C++ explicitly excluded)
This is a pretty crude analysis of course, but for example if my aim was to write a desktop fractal generator program then I'd pick C++ over C# as the extra effort involved in handling the UI in C++ would be easily offset by the plethora of example code available in C++. OTOH if I was writing a business application where there was no great advantage to having example code and lots of UI to handle then I'd go for C#.
Afterthought edit: Another reason for at least familiarising yourself with C first is that there's also Objective-C as the main development environment on the Mac and iPhone. Objective-C is C with a very thin wrapper and only really a first cousin to C++, so if you envisage that you might ever be in the position where you want to port code to or develop directly on the Mac then I think you'd find it less confusing if you at least have some feel for how C++ (or C#) builds on C rather than having to 'step sideways' across the tree.
C# vs the others really solve quite different things but given your web background and it's rapid development approach, I'd definitely go with C#
My suggestion is to learn C++. C# is good, but it will prevent you from writing portable code. If you learn C++, you got many choices. In windows you can use Windows Forms application or WPF with .NET framework. MFC is another good choice. QT is the other choice which works on multiple platforms. So by learning one language, you can write code for multiple platforms and you got a variety of GUI tookits. After learning C++, learning C# would be trivial.
All the best
C# is the highest-level language of these, which means that it's the easiest one to accomplish what you want.
Windows GUIs can be surely made with C++ and even with C, but it's harder.
definitely first go to the basics: learn C.
then go to your real goal. if you want any chance of going multiplatform C# is discarded. you'd want to go with C++ and Qt, or wxWindows.
In my opinion you should starting studiying C, to have a base knowledge about aspects like memory, file accessing. C is a low level languaje, this means that you will have more control over the way you access to operating system, but to create windows application you'll have to code a lot of lines of code. For this reason, after doing few things with C, i should start with C# with Visual Studio 2008. .Net Framework comes with a huge number of classes that makes your life easier.
Hope it helps.
Kind Regards.
Josema.
C/C++ both allow low level programming. That means that everything is possible, but even simple things can be hard. If that's what you mean when you say that you want something powerful, you should probably start with C++. It at least gives you some decent GUI libraries (gtk+ with gtkmm or qt), whereas GUI programming with C is a pain.
If, on the other hand, you want to develop applications quickly (and that's what you mean by powerful), then C# is probably the way to go.
I woudl recomend C#. It's not as powerfull as the other two, but for your needs I belive C# will be least painfull. C and C++ are low-level languages, so I think they will be a lot of work for GUI and stuff.
Save the C. To those people that advise learning C, please give arguments for that. I claim that it has absolutely no benefit to learn C rather than C++. I, unlike them, have arguments to back this claim up.
In a nutshell: C is already a subset of C++ for all intents and purposes, but it's far from the most interesting subset. It only offers a very limited insight into new proramming paradigsm. C++, on the other hand, defines a few very interesting new paradigms which, furthermore, are a generalization of all that C has to offer (i.e. iterators which are a generalization of pointers).
To reiterate: if the choice is between C and C++, choose C++.
Although I agree that C is "useful" to know it is certainly no longer essential for the majority of programmers. For me these days it's main function is that it has given me an understanding of how the underlying hardware affects program performance and behavior but that's the end of it. I haven't used it in development work for the last 9 years.
In regards to getting to grips with object-oriented development I feel that both C# and C++ will give you a firm foundation but C++ is far more flexible (and harder to use correctly) while C# is more consistent and way to go if you're going to get into .NET development. I would therefore recommend learning C# and one of the "new" .NET-presentation technologies like Windows Presentation Foundation or Silverlight. Alternatively, learn Windows Forms first but it's a bit lacking in presentation.
The only case where I would recommend C is if you are going into fairly low-level stuff like device drivers, embedded controllers or similar but in most of those cases you could still use C++.
Having come up through the languages, first C on Unix, then C++ with MFC and then C# (starting with 1.0) I think that going back in time to earlier incarnations of the language is a bit like learning Latin. Oh, probably just stolen something from Paul Graham there but I would agree with it.
C is very good if you have to have a minimal object code size, very good for embedded stuff where it's one step up on the assembly language. I'm thinking of things like a Microchip PIC etc where you may only have 1K word of program space.
C++ is very good if you can have the larger object size but still need to be able to hammer the metal directly - so things like device drivers, network stacks, etc etc. The kind of glue program that sits under everything.
An OS could end up in either of these - or more likely a mix of the two depending upon the programmer, the age of the code, what it needs to interface with, the depth of the snow outside (just one more run and then I'll write that method!)
C# is really good at the higher level business focussed user layer applications. They could be web based, client based, a mix of the two - it doesn't really matter. The nice thing about the .net family is that you have a rich library, for this layer that is important, and it is being heavily developed to be richer all the time.
As computers become more powerful the cost of the developer outweighs the cost of the processor or memory.
Go with C#, ignore C and C++. By the time you are happy with C# you won't have any need to program in a lower level language for the speed increase.
Again, another vote for C# and against C. Sure C is interesting from a technical point of view and will teach you all the details, but the truth is, you don't need to know all the details to make an application. If your goal is to make something work, which it sounds like it is, it's C# hands down. C# is the highest level of the three, which means less time fighting the language, more time making stuff work.
It sounds to me like most people are recommending you learn C so that you can eventually make better C# programs. Why wait, go straight for C# and learn it. I do think C++ is an absolutely excellent language and one day you should learn it, but there's no reason why you can't make a quality C# language if you've never learnt C or C++ - many people do that every day!
It doesn't really matter what kind of language you start with but if I were you I would do:
Start with the basics in C (It will probably be hard to understand)
Move to C++
And at last C#
I'd suggest you start with C#, but quickly progress to C++ as once you have learnt how to code generally, you should return to your roots. I'm currently studying electronics because I'm going back even further. The more you know about how and why, the better you can know about how best to get where you need to go. I think a C# programmer that doesn't know any lower level language is going to write rather sub-optimal code, but a low level programmer learning C# is going to be overly cautious of all the managed stuff. So, whatever you choose, you should consider doing both in the long run.
I would go for C#.
I've done my time (lots of it) with the other 2 and find C# 'cleaner'. You also get a rich library of all kinds of functions included in .Net. I assume that you're not interested in developing for other non-Windows platforms which might have been an argument for going for C or C++. I also assume that you don't need the squeeze the last drop of performance out of the system where C might have given you a slight advantage.
To those who say you ought to learn C in order to understand how programming really works I would say that you ought to learn assembler in order to understand how C works. I did and it does help but is it really worth the pain? To be a programmer you have to switch on your brain. Think about what you are doing and understand your tools!
My vote: C#
Learn C#.
Is good to begin with the basics, but better than begin with C I would begin with the basics of C#.
This will give you a solid foundation with the fine points of C# basics and after you could move to more advanced topics.
For example you can take a look to Charles Petzold ".NET Book Zero" here.
I recommend::
First get into C. spend some time get use to it(but not too much)
Then get into C#. that's the way you can deal with GUI things more easyily.
IDE like VisualStudio can help you a lot dealing with GUI.
If you wanna be a real good programmer of C/C++/C#, then it might be not the good way but I think you are not interested in being a Guru or something like that :)
There are a lot more jobs developing windows apps in C# than C or C++. Learn C#.
C# is a good place to start. You can get it for free and you can do some fun graphics using XNA studio (also free).
I would only learn C++ if you have a specific reason to.
If you are doing Windows programming I would recommend that you do the first few chapters of one of Petzold's Programming Windows books. It will give you a basic understanding of C and of how Windows works at the bare metal level. You don't really need to learn C. Charles Petzold holds your hand and gets you up and running in a basic C Windows program.
Learn C#...if you want to develop desktop apps.
With proper set of libraries memory in standard C++ can become as easy as managed (smart pointers). Some C++ widget libraries are as easy to use as C#.NET. However it will probably perform worse than C# due to several abstraction layers. And with C++ you need to learn non-standard libraries. With .NET most of the components that you need are standard.
C is ancient and does not have STL. It demands you to be smart, but I doubt the advantages of it.
I need something pretty powerful and I would like to be able to create apps with Windows GUI's.
Well C is pretty powerful so that would would handle that criteria but something like C# and WPF would make life so ,uch easier if you're aiming to GUI apps.
Without C/C++/C# experience start with C. Edit: Ok, start directly with C# or C++ don't lose time. You cannot seriously code Windows desktop applications with C anymore, it's just to painful.
Then move to Object oriented languages to get something more powerfull.
If you wan't to stay far from windows plateform, C# is not the better option, or check out the Mono plateform.
IMO, C# is far more advanced than C and C++, you will build big application faster. WPF librarues will give you nice UI without windows style (but only on windows systems...)
Are you planning to make gui based applications for windows? Depending on what, I recommend VB. However, given your choices, I would pick C#.

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