I like making music using mostly my computer and especially love using synthesisers. There is a wide range of synthesiser plugins available online which are quite awesome. I have downloaded the VST (Virtual Studio Technology) SDK which is the platform that most plugins I know of use.
I would like to know if you can use the SDK on the .Net framework to write plugins; the only documentation and tutorials I could find is for C++ and I'm not that trusted with C++. I could learn to use C++, I taught myself C# in a week, but to use an unknown language and to learn other new concepts don't seem like a good combination.
Could anyone just give me pointers in the right direction on how to get started and even if it is possible to program it using .Net?
Regards Charl
Many beginners find VST.NET the perfect choice to start off with. It comes with some samples and with VS2008/VS2010 project templates that yield working plugins. So its a great way to start.
VST.NET provides a framework that structures and groups the VST API into manageable pieces. Out of the box it provides support for common functionality such as plugin parameters and programs.
So drop by at the VST.NET codeplex site and we'll help you get started.
BTW: To my knowledge the noise project has been abandoned and although VST.NET might not appear to be very active, I still continue to react on the questions posted on its codeplex site.
I second obiwanjacobi's sentiment. VST.Net is about the only .Net VST bridge out there that I know of and the community is great. It's an excellent framework.
https://vstnet.codeplex.com/
As for the statement: "doubt .NET platform would be adequate concerning the raw performance that a VST plugin requires". This is entirely untrue. My tests have shown that on a decent computer, .Net can very easily handle basic synthesis without even raising the CPU level above a few percent. Of course, it's not going to match C++'s performance for very complex synthesis, but in cases like this, there's no reason why you can't fall back on C++ to do the more complex stuff. In fact that is where Vst.Net excels. It would allow you to build very complex synthesis as a VST, and then leverage that in .Net.
At the same time, I think you'd be hard pressed to say definitively that .Net couldn't do very complex synthesis as well. I haven't really tried, but there's no real obstacles when you pay attention to the performance of your code, which would go for any programming platform.
On top of all that, there is now .Net Native to add to the picture. .Net Native has the potential to be AS fast as C++.
I remember hearing of noisevst and VST.NET, two C# wrappers for the VST API but I don't know how stable they are. And I really doubt .NET platform would be adequate concerning the raw performance that a VST plugin requires.
So I would recommend learning a little bit of C++. Yes, C++ is so big and complex that nobody on earth knows every feature of it. But for plugin development purposes all you need to do is to implement a couple of methods. You can start from the provided samples in the VST API. Audio DSP code wouldn't look much different if you'd use C#, C++ or any other mainstream language anyway.
If you also want to implement a GUI for your plugin, that's where the things start getting hairy. VSTGUI is simple but lacks many features. I can recommend WDL's iPlug framework but that would require a little more than basic C++.
I am quite aware of both java and C# .Net .when i try to create a new windows application which are the factors that decide which technology should be opted?
I know of one thing ,for great and faster UI development Visual studio helps a lot.
There are several factors I would consider...
What are your programmers used to working with already? What third party libraries are you likely to need, what's available on both platforms?
Does platform independence matter to you?
Would LinQ be advantageous?
If you're starting from scratch, costs for the platforms?
Both platforms have strong communities around them...
Hope this helps...
Dotnet is pretty much native in Windows which obviously makes it more suited to writing Windows programs. Using Java in a Windows-only environment makes it much harder for you since it effectively just adds another unnecessary API layer.
You will soon realise that all integration points between your Java code and Windows are a bit problematic. For instance, creating installation programs, access file system, reading/writing the registry, starting/stopping services, task bar icons, using Windows GUI components (media player, IE...), help file system...
It all boils down to this imo: The Dotnet framework is much richer in terms of functionality than the Java dito, mainly becuase Java is cross-platform and thus needs a "one-size-fit-all" approach to its API. My experience is that you will only get frustrated trying to "emulate" a Windows native program in Java.
Choose the one with which you are most familiar. The two platforms are different enough that skills from one does not transfer easily to the other.
In any case, try making a trivial application in both your scenarios and see how it works for you. The initial impression is important as it is probably indicative of how well the rest of the work will be.
It also depends on what kind of windows application you want to build. If it's just a question of building a simple standalone application then, considering you know both languages equally well, I wouldn't hesitate and would go for a 100% microsoft solution, especially if you have to do specific things like accessing ActiveDirectory, the windows registry, etc.
Not that you can't do it in Java : you can always use AD through LDAP in Java for example, but the APIs are just "a bit" more complicated than the .Net ones (try to decode objectSIDs in Java without a few tricks).
Now if you have to build an enterprise app. I just feel that popular frameworks like Spring and Hibernate are always coming out after their Java counterparts (disclaimer : this is a personal opinion; I didn't do any research on this, thoroughly comparing frameworks in both languages, but that's just the feeling I have). I don't know how good the .Net implementations are though, so I don't have a point of view on that. I just remember writing .Net 2.0 apps and not liking ADO.Net at all.
My view is that the frameworks I like do exist in both languages, but they are first developed for Java, then ported to .Net.
Now I'm not the kind of developer trying to defend his favourite language over the others. If I don't have external constraints to develop, then I choose whatever language gets my app up and running faster and in the most efficient way.
...But with java you will have crossplatform application on scratch.
Also coding UI in java is not difficult - if you read some guides before and use some frameworks as swing application framework or SWT framework.
If its Exclusively for Windows then .Net is best bet.
Yeah for a pure cross platform application Java can't be beat, but if you can manage it Silverlight is a subset of WPF and a pretty compelling cross-platform proposition on its own.
Productivity-wise I think WPF has an edge as it has a nice XAML markup language that can be easily created with the built-in designer in VS.NET or integrates nicely with MS' suite of expression products.
I'm a computer scientist and i've been working with Java mostly to develop applications.
I just been hired in a company that makes projects with ArcGIS.
The company has hired na electrical engineer to develop the arcGIS projects.
This engineer used to customize ArcMap with VBA and lately extensions with .NET and C#.
I want to take a new path and start using the ArgGIS Engine with Java.
I want to know if this choice is right.Has any of you been developing with Engine-Java and how difficult is it(The use of JNI -for which i have little knoledge- is making it more difficult? ).
Also I have a little experience with .NET and c++ but not C#.I will have a big learning curve with this path?
Also which are the advantages and disadvantages and limitations of each method?
Hard question to answer.
The general opinion seems to be that C# is easy to learn if you know Java.
IMHO your biggest problem is going to be learning and manipulating the massive, convoluted ArcGIS object model. Choice of language is probably secondary.
My instinct is that C#/.Net is probably more popular for desktop programming with ArcGIS, so you'll get more community support with that. But I don't know. There's clearly a lot of folks using Java with ArcGIS - I suspect it's mostly server work, but I'm not sure. You might be able to figure out how popular ArcEngine with Java is by checking out the ESRI forum activity.
EDIT. You probably need to decide whether learning C# is going to be valuable in future to your employer (and your career), and balance that against some assessment of whether using Java with ArcGIS engine is unusual, and therefore more risky. Only you can answer the first question.
I absolutely in all respects suggest you stick with C#/.Net over Java. Last time i looked (take this with a grain of salt), the Java Library + COM inter-opt done with ArcGIS is pretty slow when working with certain elements (Arrays, oh god the arrays), also i am pretty sure Java will most likely be the next language to be put onto the cutting block in the near future(VB6 is now getting the axe). Also ESRI's java community is pretty tiny compared to their C#/.NET (however about 50 times bigger then their C++ :()
I would go for .NET and C#
If you know java and C++ than C# must be easy. You will just need to find your way through the .net framework that's all.
You will be safe with C# if you ever have to make some rich internet application in combination with arcgis and Silverlight (C#).
I am trying to decide upon using Mono with C# or Python (Django) for a Linux based Web Site. My concern with C# is that Mono may not be as reliable as .NET. Does anyone have any experience with this?
i do a variety of things using mono/c# on linux - all projects compiled on a windows machine, no less.
i've done services, web sites, console apps, you name it. unless you're doing real edge-case things, you should have no problems.
i also run sites using lighttpd + fastcgi + mono with no problem. i love it
I think it's a given that Mono is less reliable than .NET on Windows, given the resources available for development, and the size of the user base. How much less is a moot point.
This blog post from Miguel de Icaza illustrates the sort of problems that would concern me when using Mono.
However I can't give you any comparison of Mono and Python.
This depends what you are doing. If you are creating a non-enterprise website, you should do fine with ether. I've heard good things about Mono. The problem with using Mono is that it is constantly playing catchup with MS and that it has to support multiple platforms, whereas MS does not. I have written desktop applications with mono, but I have never done website related things with it. With C# and the Windows platform, your best bet is the MS implementation. My recommendation would be to use Python.
I can not speak for the supportability, reliability, etc of Django, but Python has been arround for a while, and it has a long track record for working well on Linux/Unix.
Personally, I would steer you away from using C# (Mono) if you are targeting Linux.
Your development community could be very small for any platform issues; while there are obviously a lot of C# developers, the number who use Mono is relatively tiny1.
In my experience, there are a lot of issues with even finding a recent version of Mono for Linux, unless you run SUSE2.
While Mono may have the features you want, and may have the reliability (I can't comment, I'm still using 1.x!) you may also want to look into the speed if you expect heavy usage.
If you plan to deploy to more machines (especially if you can't clone them) these are much more of an issue; they matter somewhat less if it's just one server.3
There are some who have concerns about the threat of lawsuits over Mono technology, and what might happen to the end users (you and your users) if those occurred. From what I've read, I'm not overly concerned, but I am not a lawyer.
Good luck.
I could be mistaken; I didn't look at download numbers for Mono although that'd be the
upper bound.
Ubuntu Karmic (9.10) has Mono 2.4, but I regret I upgraded from Jaunty (9.04) which had 1.9.
Building from source can be taxing. And there are other sources for the Mono 2.X binaries, but they aren't easy to locate.
This might be pure speculation, but here is my experience. I'm using ubuntu and mono (as well as monodevelop) is shipped 2 years behind current version. You could compile newer one, but that's pain. I've used it in 3 hobby projects, here is my conclusion: comparing to microsoft implementation it's buggy and has memory leaks and slower. Well, most of the time it will work, but should you stress your software and you'll see. I wish I knew C++ as good as C#, so I could go with it on linux. All applies to v. 2.10 and below.
I think I'm leaning toward C# and .net as a concentration language for learning web development. I would like to learn good programming fundamentals and I've looked at pretty much everything else. The four I've narrowed it down to have been C#, Python, Ruby and PHP. Is there a reason to stay away from C# (and I don't think the cost issue would really apply to my solo-developer situation but I could be totally wrong). Any thoughts?
I realize that these are all great languages so I'm not trying to ask which is the best overall. However, would Ruby be a viable alternative for a first language or does it have too much "magic under the hood" coupled with Rails, and unorthodox methodologies? I do like what I've seen with the language.
This is likely to result in a flamewar but I think C# is a pretty good language to start with for Web Development.
It is a full featured object oriented language and is statically typed and compiled. It's very well documented and has a huge developer community.
If you absolutely have to run on Linux/Apache and do not want to use Mono, that would be a reason not to use C#. Other than that, I don't think there is a compelling reason not to, particularly with ASP.NET MVC, which lets you move away from the WebForms model.
This is not to say that WebForms is necessarily bad but some might object to WebForms as it introduces abstractions that are not inherent in other web development platforms.
If you go with C# for web development, depending on your experience with web technology, I'd heartily recommend starting with ASP.NET MVC before ASP.NET Web Forms.
ASP.NET Web Forms is the original style of building ASP.NET applications, and tries to abstract a lot of the details. It allows you to build applications without realising what's happening under the hood (post data, state management). In my opinion, these abstractions although making things easy at first begin to "leak" when you get into more complicated scenarios (as this tutorial proves).
ASP.NET MVC on the other hand makes it easier to build web sites that are a lot "closer to the metal" while still keeping you productive. If you want absolute control over the resulting HTML and aren't afraid of things like cookies, form tags, post and query string data, then you might enjoy ASP.NET MVC a lot more.
Of course it would be beneficial to know both. But if I was starting now, I'd probably start with MVC and move to Forms (then realise how bad it is and move back :)).
There are no "best language over all". You use one tool for the purpose it has been made, that's why there are several tools.
Since your question is "why not learn C#", I'd say :
If you plan to work with other OS then Windows (Mono cannot compare).
If work in an env or with people not .net friendly (e.g : bank, scientists)
If you work in an env or with people that are expert in another good tech (never underestimate the use of a good master).
If you think Free Software matters so much that using a MS product is not worth it.
If you don't like MS Visual Studio (working in c# without a good IDE is a pain).
If You plan to program something that .net is not suited for (e.g embedded devices, scripting, real-time, fault tolerant system, AI, etc).
If you are a web dev and can't afford a Windows Server Licence.
If you want to learn programming with the very basics, including simple functions and quick and dirty scripts.
Now, I program in Php, Python, Java and C#. Python is my language of choice, but c# is really the first MS programming tool that seduced me : it's clean and efficient. Really, it's about what you want to do, not a question of religion.
Make YOUR choice.
That's said, C# sucks and Python rocks.
I agree C# is a pretty complete language, it's syntax is clean and extensible. There's a huge amount of web resource already available, but and it's a big but, it effectively ties you to windows as your platform. For web especially that's an important consideration. On the desktop windows is king, but for web servers the market it isn't nearly so dominant.
Another side issue, if you're looking at rich media on the web you have to consider Flash and/or Silverlight. If you go C# then you're someway to using Silverlight without learning a different language.
Don't worry about the cost. The compiler is free to use, along with the rest of the Fx SDK, and you can even download Visual Studio for free.
The disadvantage to learning C# is that it ties you to a proprietary platform and software stack. Now, there is Mono, which does a good job of implementing much of C# and .Net, but the primary and most complete implementation is Microsoft's which is non-free.
I have not used C# enough to debate it's technical merits with respect to Ruby or Python. I can say, however, that learning to use and even contribute back to free software can be quite educational, in addition to the other benefits (discussed in length elsewhere) that free software provides.
c# is a good language to start with because:
It is a very good and very clean language
It has an excellent library (.NET framework). This is one of the most important things to consider when choosing a language.
It is very popular, you'll always be able to find the answer you are looking for from the community.
If you know c#, you pretty much know VB.NET.
c# is syntactically similar to Java. Learning c# won't teach you Java's libraries, but it will significantly reduce the learning curve if you want to enter the Java camp.
c# is syntactically similar to c++. Again, it uses a different library and unlike c++ you get memory management; but the learning curve should be somewhat reduced if you decide to play with c++.
As for the web...
ASP.NET webforms does a lot of magic for you. ASP.NET MVC (just released) does almost no magic for you. For learning, MVC is the better choice.
C# is a great language to use. And since you are using it via the web and not desktop applications for example, you don't have to worry about being multi-platform since the code is run on your server and the output delivered to the clients. With that said, you will have to find Windows hosting (which can sometimes be a bit more expensive) or use mono (which isn't exactly the most updated software out there). The downsides are minimal though, grab a copy of the express edition and go for it!
I think the cost of deployment might be a different thing, i.e. if your project needs to scale horizontally, and add more servers to load balance or even for geographically distributed servers. Usually the windows hosting will run a bit more than linux (without even considering the flame wars reasons).
C# is fine for starting if you are doing web development. However, I recommend that you don't start programming with web development. Web development is hard to get right. Way harder than little command line things. I recommend that you get some good experience programming for the command line, and then move up to GUI, and then move on to the web. The web has a whole bunch of things you have to worry about. You have to know 3 languages (HTML, JS, C#(or insert your server side language here)). Plus you have to worry about all the browser quirks and stuff. And that's without even getting into databases. Which is usually used in most web applications, but opens up a whole other can of worms.
Considering all the answers so far, I thought I'd look at all four languages mentioned.
While I've done a lot of development in PHP, and sadly continue to do so, I think PHP was never a great language (though it had a few great elements) and these days there's not much point picking it up. It remains extremely easy to get into but I think in general, PHP is a "bad habit".
Python is a great language, but to me, Ruby is all that Python is and a bit more. Personally I would go for Ruby.
C# is also a great language, but while I haven't used C# enough to say anything with confidence, I feel that Ruby is a better choice.
No reason in particular to stay away from C#. It's as good a language as any. Stackoverflow uses it for example, so it works on a successful website, and you can get jobs programming in it.
The proprietary thing would be a consideration if you were programming as a hobby or off your own limited budget, or you wanted to contribute to the development of the compiler/language. I'm guessing neither of these are the case. (Edit: as others have pointed out, open source environments for C# exist.)
It depends on a couple of things. C# and .Net is populate and th tools are really very easy (complared to Java! Java developer talking here...) but Windows Hosting is expensive vs LAMP (which include Ruby, Python and PHP).
For me it all depends on the tool that you want to use. For web services etc I would use C# but for a simple website PHP since its easy.
It also depends on the job market of your location... here in South Africa you get alot more C# jobs and not much PHP etc. Off course if your a freelance you will struggle to find work.
For me Ruby again is good for my own person stuff but you don't get any Ruby jobs here.
My advice? Learn the differences for yourself. Play around with both of them. If you have a project in mind, write a prototype for it in them. You'll always be at the mercy of other peoples' biases otherwise.
ASP.net (C#) and Ruby on Rails are used in high-profile sites, so you can't go too wrong with either one. Might I also suggest that you try out Python programming with django? It's what I tend to prefer for web programming.
I'm a C# .Net developer and I think it's great, but I'll highlight a danger in the Asp.Net WebForms. It is unlike the majority of other web frameworks and does A LOT of magic under the covers. As others have said ASP.Net MVC is probably more inline with other web frameworks (Rails for example). Web Forms abstracts a lot of the nuts and bolts of webdev away which If you want to be web developer you'll end up needing to know. So yes C# is great but I'd start with MVC and then look at web forms possibly. Also looking at other languages and frameworks is highly encouraged there's always stuff to learn.
Commercially I am a C# developer. I love C#. C# is a great strongly typed language. With Resharper installed I can build my ideas in code rapidly and flex it to my will.
When I go home each evening I use Ruby. Even though I have no refactoring support (snif.) I find I am much more productive in Ruby than in C#.
I worked writing a large ASP.Net application for a couple of years. We implemented MVC to try to detangle the view from the model. It always felt like I was fighting the framework, not working with it. The latest .Net frameworks for doing web application are based on Rails... just a couple of years behind. I love the language. I love the CLR. I'm not too keen on .Net.
I find the ruby community to be friendly and vibrant. The rails open source community produces loads of tutorials and plugins that make getting up to speed easy and putting your application together simple.
Another thing to consider (as far as choosing a language to learn) is that ruby is an Object Oriented language. Even classes are objects. C# is a Class Oriented language, ie. it provides you one way to create objects.. define a class first. (not totally true.. you can generate assemblies in memory using codedom.. but that is by no means easy).
This may seem like a subtle point, but there is a difference.. and until you get experience with an OO language like ruby or smalltalk it's not obvious what that is. Once you have felt the freedom of building objects by mixing in functionality at runtime etc. you find that all the 'work-around's you had to do in C# disappear. Not having the safety net of interfaces does seems scary at first.
In all, I'd learn ruby..
If you are new to programming (totally) I'd start with http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
Then I would learn BDD (RSpec) and get test infected as soon as possible.
Then I'd consume rails tutorials and screen casts until my eyes popped
The only problem is .. if you start with ruby then later go to C# you'll find yourself going "Aaaaagh! This would be so much easier to do in ruby" all the time. I know I do.
It really depends on what you are trying to achieve. I program in both and to be brutally honest, if you are trying to make a career out of programming, I get paid twice as much for .NET programming. The types of clients that I do PHP dev work for are not the types that pay a lot (PHP is often chosen based on saving some $$$). .NET seems to be much more entrenched in larger corporations.
Just my observation...
No disadvantages really except that you will be unwelcome in those social groups (and even geographical regions) that pose themselves against the "evil Microsoft".
The language (better .NET platform) is quite good. One important thing is that it is being very actively developed causing some people trouble keeping up. But I'd rather have rapid development compared to year-long stagnation.
You might consider checking what employers in your area prefer as a technology stack.
Considering licensing costs you can consider the following: If it is a small site you can use Visual Studio Express/SQL Server Express for free and it will be sufficient. If you come up with some major heavy trafficked project you will likely to find a way to make revenues and cover licensing costs.
Learning C# is great in 2009.
Way back in the day, when I entered the professional world, the language landscape was very different. I coded professionally in C and Modula 3 (Pascal replacement language).
My point is that I would plan for the technical landscape to change over time, and plan for that in your professional career development.
Learning multiple platforms is a great way to accomplish this. For example, you could have C#/.NET as your primary skill, but also work with JAVA. When a new platform emerges, you could add it as your transition or backup skillset.