I would like to have a client-server application written in .NET which would do following:
server is running Linux
on the server there is SQL database (mySQL) containing document URLs
What we want:
- server side would regularly crawl all URLs and create a full text index for them
- client side would be able to perform a query into this index using GUI
The client application is written in .NET using C#. Besides of searching in documents it will be able to do a lot of other things which are not described here and which are done client-side very well.
We would like to use C# for the server side as well, but we have no experience in this area. How are things like this usually done?
Clarifying question now based on some answers:
The thing which is most unclear to me is how client-server communication is usually handled. Is client and server usually using sockets, caring about details like IP addresses, ports or NAT traversal? Or are there some common frameworks and patters, which would make this transparent, and make client-server messaging or procedure calling easy? Any examples or good starting points for this? Are there some common techniques how to handle the fact a single server is required to server multiple clients at the same time?
To use c# on Linux you will need to use Mono. This is an open source implementation of the CLR specification.
Next you need to decide on how to communicate between server and client, from the lowest level of just opening a TCP/IP socket and sending bits up and down, to .Net remoting, to WCF, to exposing webservices on the server. I do not know how compleat WCF implementation is on mono, also I think you may have issue with binary remoting between mono and MS .Net .
I would suggest RPC style WebServices offer a very good solution. WebServices also have the advantage of alowing clients from other platforms to connect easily.
EDIT
In response to the clarification of the question.
I would suggest using mono/ASP.NET/WebServices on the server, if you wish to use c# on both server and client.
One assumption I have made is that you can do a client pull model, where every message is initiated by the client. Using another approach could allow the server to push events to the client. Given the client has the ability to pole the server regularly I don't consider this much of a draw back but it may be depending on the type of application you are developing.
Mono allow execution of c# (compiled to IL) on a Linux box. Mono ASP.NET allows you to use the standard ASP.NET and integrate into Apache see http://www.mono-project.com/ASP.NET and finally WebServices allow you to communicate robustly in a strongly typed manner between you client and your server.
Using this approach negates most of the issues raised in your clarification and makes them someone else's problem.
Sockets/SSL - is taken care of by standard .Net runtime on the client and Apache on the server.
IPAddress/ports/NAT traversal - Is all taken care of. DNS look up will get the servers IP. Open socket will allow the server to respond through any firewall and NAT setup.
Multiple Clients - Apache is built to handle multiple clients processing at the same time as is ASP.NET, so you should not encounter any problems there.
As many have already mentioned there are a number of thing that you have mentioned which are going to cause you pain. I'm not going to go into those, instead I will answer your original question about communication.
The current popular choice in this kind of communication is web services. These allow you to make remote calls using the HTTP protocol, and encoding the requests and responses in XML. While this method has its critics I have found it incredibly simple to get up and running, and works fine for nearly all applications.
The .NET framework has built in support for web services which can definitely be called by your client. A brief look at the mono website indicates that it has support for web services also, so writing your server in C# and running it under mono should be fine. Googling for "C# Web Service Tutorial" shows many sites which have information about how to get started, here is a random pick from those results:
http://www.codeguru.com/Csharp/Csharp/cs_webservices/tutorials/article.php/c5477
have a look at Grasshopper:
"With Grasshopper, you can use your favorite development environment from Microsoft® to deploy applications on Java-enabled platforms such as Linux"
Or see here
The ideea is to convert your app to Java and then run it on Tomcat or JBoss.
Another approach: use the Mod_AspDotNet module for Apache, as described here.
This Basic Client/Server Chat Application in C# looks like a kind of example which might be a starting point for me. Relevant .NET classes are TcpClient and TcpListener
Related
I am trying to use web sockets to allow two Windows services on different machines to pass data back and forth. Almost all the examples or information I have found are about using web sockets for Client/Server Side communication. I am having trouble figuring out how to set this up. I have considered using WebSocketHost as apart of Microsoft.ServiceModel.WebSockets, but then I am unsure how to bind it to a local port and not a URL.
Does any one have any suggestions
Thanks
I am trying to use web sockets to allow two Windows services on different machines to pass data back and forth.
You can open sockets on both machines using WebSockets as you found. The examples mention clients and servers because this is the typical usage, however the API really doesn't care. As long as each side has a listener and a sender they can communicate.
However I would like to mention that this isn't as simple as it sounds because both machines aren't always available. Sometimes one or the other is busy or the network is blocked or something else is going on, or the listener is too busy to respond right away, so you're going to end up needing some sort of queuing on both sides.
If you're doing a process based operation where one side tells the other "I want X" and it's a big operation like producing a document, I've found it much more resilient to build a queue in a database and toss the request in there, then wait for the other side to update the record to say it's done.
If they're smaller, faster requests, MSMQ would be more appropriate if you have it available.
However back to your original question, if you want to use it, any of the client-server examples should work just fine. The API doesn't care.
You can use SignalR Self-Host you really don't want to create your own WebSockets framework since this this will take a long time.
Here is a link on how to start a OWIN server in Windows services.
Hosting WebAPI using OWIN in a windows service
And how to set signalR in self host
Tutorial: SignalR Self-Host
You can accomplish this with Memory Mapped Files.
Inter-Process Communication with Memory-Mapped Files
I am currently in the planning stages for a fairly comprehensive rewrite of one of our core (commercial) software offerings, and I am looking for a bit of advice.
Our current software is a business management package written in Winforms (originally in .NET 2.0, but has transitioned into 4.0 so far) that communicates directly with a SQL Server backend. There is also a very simple ASP.NET Webforms website that provides some basic functionality for users on the road. Each of our customers has to expose this site (and a couple of existing ASMX web services) to the world in order to make use of it, and we're beginning to outgrow this setup.
As we rewrite this package, we have decided that it would be best if we made the package more accessible from the outside, as well as providing our customers with the option of allowing us to host their data (we haven't decided on a provider) rather than requiring them to host SQL Server, SQL Server Reporting Services, and IIS on the premises.
Right now, our plan is to rewrite the existing Winforms application using WPF, as well as provide a much richer client experience over the web. Going forward, however, our customers have expressed an interest in using tablets, so we're going to need to support iOS and Android native applications as clients, as well.
The combination of our desire to offer off-site hosting (without having to use a VPN architecture) and support clients on platforms that are outside of the .NET ecosystem has led us to the conclusion that all of our client-server communication should take place through our own service rather than using the SQL Server client (since we don't want to expose that to the world and SQL Server drivers do not exist, to my knowledge, for some of those platforms).
Right now, our options as I see them are:
Write a completely custom service that uses TCP sockets and write everything (authentication, session management, serialization, etc.) from scratch. This is what I know the most about, but my assumption is that there's something better.
Use a WCF service for transport, and either take care of authentication and/or session management myself, or use something like durable services for session management
My basic question is this:
What would be the most appropriate choice of overall architecture, as well as specific features like ASP.NET authentication or Durable Services, to provide a stateful, persistent service to WPF, ASP.NET, iOS, and Android clients?
(I am working on the assumption that by "stateful" you mean session-based).
I guess one big question is: Do you want to use SOAP in your messaging stack?
You may be loathe to, as often there is no out-of-box support for SOAP on mobile platforms (see: How to call a web service with Android). No doubt its similarly painful with iOS. Calling SOAP from a browser ("ASP.NET") can't be fun. I'm not even sure its possible!
Unfortunately if you aren't using SOAP, then that quickly rules out most of WCFs standard Bindings. Of the one that remains, "Web HTTP", sessions are not supported because obviously HTTP is a stateless protocol. You can actually add session support by hand using a solution based on Cookies.
You could use the TCP transport (it supports sessions), and build you own channel stack to support a non-SOAP encoding (for example protocol-buffers), but even then you need to be careful because the TCP transport places special 'framing' bytes in it, so that would make interop non-trivial.
What sort of state do you need to store in your sessions? Maybe there are alternative approaches?
1) consider stateful utility services using singletons, but keep the request/response pattern at the facade level stateless.
2) consider distributed caching, perhaps Windows Server AppFabric Cache.
I have been doing research for a few months now on the possibility of client-server communication. I have experimented with many methods such as WebORB and FluorineFX, which are both servers designed to deal with client/server authentication.
WebORB only runs on Windows for their .NET version as far as I can tell, and I would much rather use an open source system. I have tried using FluorineFX, but I think their must be a simpler way for me to build my own simple system from the ground up.
I have been using Dropbox for a while now, and I like the way that the client-server communication is instant. As far as I can tell (from some Google searches) the client doesn't open a port of its own, and just communicates with the Dropbox server through port 80. An example of its instant communication is where you may delete a file on Dropbox on their website, and instantly the server communicates with the client telling it what has happened. I don't know how this instant communication is possible without opening a port.
I can create a system that uses fetching from the client, asking the server every 10 seconds or so to see if there are any updates, but I would like a method to be able to push the information from the server to the client.
My server runs Linux so I don't think I can use WCF, and ideally I am looking for a way to make PHP and C# communicate with each other.
I would love to hear any advice that anyone has and how they deal with the problem.
Cheers.
You CAN use WCF to communicate with any platform. Just make sure you're using an endpoint which your target machine support: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms733107.aspx
Have you tried the good old .NET Remoting which runs perfectly with Mono?
You can choose between a TcpChannel (for performance) and a HttpChannel (to pass proxy/firewall easily).
For push notifications, you can open a connection to your server and wait for an answer indefinitely.
I'm about to write a "server" application that is responsible to talk with external hardware. The application shall handle requests from clients. The clients send a message to the server, and if the server is busy with doing stuff with the hardware the new messages shall be stored in a queue that will be processed later.
The client shall also be able to cancel a request (if it is in the server's queue.). When the server application is finished with the hardware it shall be able to send the result back to the client that requested the job.
The server and client applications may or may not be on the same PC. All development is done in .NET (C#) 2005.
What is the best way to solve this communication problem?
MSMQ? SOAP? WCF? Remoting? Other?
Assuming you can use .NET 3.0 or greater then you probably want to WCF as the communications channel - the interface is consistent but it will allow you to use an appropriate transport mechanism depending on where the client and server are in relation to each other - so you can choose to use SOAP or MSMQ or a binary format or others as appropriate (and can roll your own if needed). It also covers the need for two way communication.
Queuing the messages at the server should probably be regarded as a separate problem - especially given the need to remove queued messages.
If clients and server processes are on the same machine, I think named pipes will give you the fastest raw byte transfer rate.
If the processes are across different machines, you'd need to use sockets-based approach.
Remoting is reportedly very slow. Based on the target OSes that you're planning to deploy the solution on, you could have options like WCF et al. However, the overhead of these protocols is something you may want to look at while deciding.
Remoting
If all development is done in .NET 2005, Remoting is the best way to go.
MSMQ would make some sense, though there are then security and deployment considerations. You could look at a service bus (such s NServiceBus or MassTransit) and there's also SQL Server Service Broker that could help (and can also be used by a service bus as the transport).
WCF would be another thing to look at, however that's really the across-network transport, so you'd probably still want the WCF calls to put a message on the server queue.
I don't recommend remoting, because it's hard to maintain a separation of concerns, and before you know it you're developing a really chatty interface without realising it. Remote calls are expensive in relative terms, so you should be trying to keep the messages fairly coarse-grained. WCF would be my recommendation. Not least because you can set it up to use a HTTP transport and avoid a lot of deployment and security headache.
The .NET Framework provides several ways to communicate with objects in different application domains, each designed with a particular level of expertise and flexibility in mind. For example, the growth of the Internet has made XML Web services an attractive method of communication, because XML Web services are built on the common infrastructure of the HTTP protocol and SOAP formatting, which uses XML. These are public standards, and can be used immediately with current Web infrastructures without worrying about additional proxy or firewall issues.
Not all applications should be built using some form of XML Web service, however, if only because of the performance issues related to using SOAP serialization over an HTTP connection.
Choosing Communication Options in .NET helps you decide which form of interobject communication you want for your application.
I have 50+ kiosk style computers that I want to be able to get a status update, from a single computer, on demand as opposed to an interval. These computers are on a LAN in respect to the computer requesting the status.
I researched WCF however it looks like I'll need IIS installed and I would rather not install IIS on 50+ Windows XP boxes -- so I think that eliminates using a webservice unless it's possible to have a WinForm host a webservice?
I also researched using System.Net.Sockets and even got a barely functional prototype going however I feel I'm not skilled enough to make it a solid and reliable system. Given this path, I would need to learn more about socket programming and threading.
These boxes are running .NET 3.5 SP1, so I have complete flexibility in the .NET version however I'd like to stick to C#.
What is the best way to implement this? Should I just bite the bullet and learn Sockets more or does .NET have a better way of handling this?
edit:
I was going to go with a two way communication until I realized that all I needed was a one way communication.
edit 2:
I was avoiding the traditional server/client and going with an inverse because I wanted to avoid consuming too much bandwidth and wasn't sure what kind of overhead I was talking about. I was also hoping to have more control of the individual kiosks. After looking at it, I think I can still have that with WCF and connect by IP (which I wasn't aware I could connect by IP, I was thinking I would have to add 50 webservices or something).
WCF does not have to be hosted within IIS, it can be hosted within your Winform, as a console application or as windows service.
You can have each computer host its service within the winform, and write a program in your own computer to call each computer's service to get the status information.
Another way of doing it is to host one service in your own computer, and make the 50+ computers to call the service once their status were updated, you can use a database for the service to persist the status data of each node within the network. This option is easier to maintain and scalable.
P.S.
WCF aims to replace .net remoting, the alternatives can be net.tcp binding or net.pipe
Unless you have plans to scale this to several thousand clients I don't think WCF performance will even be a fringe issue. You can easily host WCF services from windows services or Winforms applications, and you'll find getting something working with WCF will be fairly simple once you get the key concepts.
I've deployed something similar with around 100-150 clients with great success.
There's plenty of resources out on the web to get you started - here's one to get you going:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa480190.aspx
Whether you use a web service or WCF on your central server, you only need to install and configure IIS on the server (and not on the 50+ clients).
What you're trying to do is a little unclear from the question, but if the clients need to call the server (to get a server status, for example), then they just call a method on the webservice running on the server.
If instead you need to have the server call the clients from time to time, then you'll need to have each client call a sign-in method on the server webservice each time the client starts up. The sign-in method would take a delegate method from the client as a parameter. The server would then call this delegate when it needed information from the client.
Setting up each client with its own web service would represent an inversion of the traditional (one server, multiple clients) client/server architecture, and as you've already noted this would be impractical.
Do not use remoting.
If you want robustness and scalability you end up ruling out everything but what are essentially stateless remote procedure calls. Since this is exactly the capability of web services, and web services are simpler and easier to build, remoting is an essentially pointless technology.
Callbacks with remote delegates are on the performance/reliability forbidden list, so if you were thinking of using remoting for that, think again.
Use web services.
I know you don't want to be polling, but I don't think you need to. Since you say all your units are on a single network segment then I suggest UDP for broadcast change notifications, essentially setting a dirty flag, and allowing the application to (re-)fetch on demand. It's still not reliable but it's easy and very fast because it's broadcast.
As others have said you don't need IIS, you can self-host. See ServiceHost class for details on how to do this.
I'd suggest using .NET Remoting. It's quite easy to implement and doesn't require anything else.
For me its is better to learn networking.. or the manual way of socket communication.. web services are mush slower because it contains metadata..
your clients and the servers can transform to multithreaded application. just imitate the request and response architecture. it is much easy to implement a network application like this..
If you just need a status update, you can use much simpler solution, such as simple tcp server/client messaging or like orrsella said, remoting. WCF is kinda overkill here.
One note though, if all your 50+ kiosk is connected via internet, then you might need use VPN or have an open port on each kiosk(which is a security risk) so that your server can retrieve status update from each kiosk.
We had a similiar situation, but the status is send to our server periodically, so we only have 1 port to protect/secure. The frequency of the update is configurable as to accomodate slower clients.
As someone who implemented something like this with over 500+ clients and growing:
Message Queing is the way to go.
We have gone from an internal developed TCP server and client to WCF polling and ended up with Message queing. It's the only guaranteed way to get data to and from clients and servers over the internet. As a bonus, many of these solutions have an extensive framework makeing it trivial to implement publish-subscribe, Send-one-way, point-to-point sending, Request-reply. Some of these are possible with WCF but it will involve crying, shouting, whimpering and long nights not to mention gallons of coffee.
A couple of important remarks:
Letting a process poll the clients instead of the other way around = Bad idea.. it is not scalable at all and you will soon be running in to trouble when the process is take too long to complete.. Not to mention having to handle all the ip addresses ( do you have access to all clients on the required ports ? What happpens when the ip changes etc..)
what we have done: The clients sends status updates to a central message queue on a regular interval ( you can easily implement live updates in the UI), it also listens on it's own queue for a GetStatusRequest message. if it receives this, it answers ( has a timeout).. this way, we can see overal status of all clients at all times and get a specific status of a specific client when needed.
Concerning bandwidth: kiosk usually show images/video etc.. 1Kb or less status messages will not be the big overhead.
I CANNOT stress enough that the current design you present will have a very intensive development cycle AND will not scale or extend well ( trust me, we have learned this lesson). Next to this, building a good client/server protocol for this type of stuff is a hard job that will be totally useless afterwards if you make a design error ( migrating a protocol is not easy)
We have built our solution ontop of ActiveMQ ( using NMS library c#) and are currently extending Simple Service Bus for our internal workings.
We only use WCF for the communication between our winforms app and the centralized service(s)