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I've never really had any experience with programming at all, my uncle told me to come to this site for help from total strangers if I wanted to start programming. I know the names of a couple of languages but I don't really know anything at all. I'm fourteen and I can type fast if that counts for anything. One of my uncles wanted me to learn c#. So my question is, is c# a good place to begin, and if not, where is a good place to begin and how do I learn it?
You may want to look at getting the latest edition of Head First C#. It's particularly suited to newcomers - and it concentrates on "fun" examples rather than business-oriented ones. I'm not personally a fan of that style of learning, but it clearly suits a lot of other people.
Make sure you buy either the latest edition (covering .NET 4) or the most recent printing of the previous edition though: earlier versions had quite a few errors, but those have been rectified over time.
C# is a fine language to begin with.
Here is a good free ebook to get you started. It not only discusses the programming language but also what it means to be a programmer and how to approach it professionally.
As Jon says in his answer - Head First C# is also a great first book (as are all their other books such as Head First HTML).
You can get the Visual Studio Express programming environment (editor with syntax highlighting and intellisense, compiler, debugger and more) for free here - just be sure to select the C# version.
C# is an okay place to begin, but you might find it more fun to write websites instead. It's easy, everyone can see the cool things you do, and you already have the tools to start doing it -- just a text editor and a web browser. HTML and Javascript are also much simpler and more straightforward than C# without being less powerful.
http://www.w3schools.com/ is a good starting point.
In my opinion, there is one critical tool when learning to program or when learning a new programming language. That tool is "a problem that you are sincerely interested in solving."
It may be a game you are interested in writing or a desktop or web-based tool that will actually help you with something in school or in your life.
If you have a real problem that you really want to solve, there will always be free tools, tutorials, and online geeks to help you learn how to solve it.
Learning programming without solving real problems is like learning to build a house with just a hammer and a nail and a short piece of wood. You can learn the basic mechanics of the hammer, but you'll never be a carpenter until you have to confront the problems you'll encounter while trying to build something useful.
After that, I think C# is a great general purpose language to learn programming. And there are some really great free tools available.
I agree with the poster who said experiment with several languages. Solving the same problem with different tools can be a real eye-opener into the different paradigms of those tools.
If one of your uncles wants you to learn C#, he probably sees you as his employee a couple of years from now. So ask him directly if that's his plan and persuade him to help you.
If your uncle has no idea about programming and just dropped this C# suggestion because he heard the term somewhere, he might be doing a very bad favor to you.
If I would be you and I would have free hands to choose what I want, I certainly wouldn't choose C#, because it ties you to a proprietary operating system (Mono is a joke, admit it).
My choice would probably be Python, because it runs on almost any platform. And you have two very valuable tutorials for beginners that approach teaching programming from very different points, so you can pick the one that suits you best: the official Python tutorial and Zed Shaw's Learn Python The Hard Way (don't be afraid of the scary title, the book is very valuable for a beginner).
edit:
After reading the comments, I would like to add a couple more points.
How many of those C# programmers code for fun? Most programmers that use Microsoft technologies, do it professionally - it's their job, they do it for money, most of them don't have guts to admit their job is boring sometimes (even if it is), because such a claim is against the corporate policy that slips into the culture around the infrastructure provided by their (cough!) free programming tools.
Just in a couple of years, the community of users who do programming more or less seriously has literally exploded. Back in the days there was sourceforge - the single monster that was totally programmer related. Today there is launchpad, bitbucket, github (which recently surpassed 1000000 repositories, most of which are small personal pet projects governed by free licenses). How many of those projects are using C#?
Today programming is about reusing or "stealing" (in the good sense) code more than ever. Where are the herds of C# projects, small general-purpose libraries? While some programmers who write proprietary software are not very helpful to newbies (because they see it as consulting, which they can do for money), and while some programmers who write free software are not very helpful as well (because they lack social skills), the code is more important. You don't learn programming only by reading books, you learn it by studying working code. And the free software ecosystem provides much more code to study.
Generally, people who get into programming have two choices:
avoid proprietary stuff, get access to a lot of free software at the risk of being called "anonymous internet elitist"
ignore the proprietary vs free holy war at the risk of feeling what proprietary software means indeed and how it can spoil a good intention, like this guy
There's a lot to programming but it can probably be broken down into a few key elements:
theory
craft
dialects
Theory just takes lots of learning. Books, classes, trial and error, research, etc.
Craft comes with experience.
And that leaves dialects...or rather the particular language(s) you want to become fluent in.
To answer that would require a long list of what kind of stuff you are aiming to do. If you don't really have any particular direction to go in, your 'uncle wanting you to learn it' is maybe as good of a reason as any.
I would say dibble a bit in a few hot languages like C#, Python, Ruby. The reason I say this is, I think liking a language is a bit like developing tastebuds. I know many people who disgusted coding only because of braces and syntatic sugar. All I wanted to save you was from getting intimidated by syntax and throwing it away
I believe C# is a really good starting point. That's pretty spiffy that you're really interested about programming at 14.
I suggest picking up a C# book and reading it. Follow the examples as you come by them.
One of my favorite C# books is by Andrew Troelsen: Pro C# with .NET 4.0 is his latest book. :)
http://apress.com/book/view/1430225491
C# is definitely a good place to start and here is one reason why:
C# is a proper language that will pretty much force you to know what you're doing as a programmer.
I began my programming career with PHP and that language is so loose you almost can't screw up. You can make cool sites and such but never know how terrible they are until you are hired to do something that requires a stronger language. At that time, certain terms and data types that are never used in PHP will broadside you.
As I look back, now that I know many programming languages, starting with PHP was a pretty bad way to begin programming, at least in my opinion. I can't believe I have a job in this field knowing where I began.
Java is also a good place to begin. Any strict compiling language, really. When you know the foundations from a strict compiling language, the loose ones like PHP are a breeze to add to your knowledge base.
Of course, you may want to consider what you're looking to program for. If you want to do web work, C# is a good base, but doubtful that you will use it much for web work unless you're working on something seriously deep. Objective C is used for iphone and ipad development, so you can't go wrong learning that.
Java is good for web and is now a mobile platform, so it is definitely a good investment. The principles of Java will help you write better web code, as well as form a good foundation if you want to branch to C later. Vice versa, I guess.
PHP is very easy to learn and will serve you quite well if you want to get into web development. You should know html, css and get familiar with at least mysql for databases if you go this route. Just FYI, php developers are a dime a dozen in the programming field, so don't count on getting rich doing this unless you want to run your own web company and do the site yourself.
In any case, MVC (model view controller) will be an important thing to read up on. When your code is well structured, it is immeasurably easier to maintain for yourself and anyone else that may have to pick up where you left off.
Have fun.
There's no best approach, but one place to start is here:
Express Editions
They're free and you get lots of choices.
to copy a post i posted here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3430705/3432079#3432079 there are two things to get a handle upon:
Academic Knowledge:
Know the Theory - get a great handle on the theory of programming, the theory of language design, the theory behind the architectures you are coding on
Know the Math - all programming eventually boils down to math - know predicate logic, trig, vectors, geometry, (basic) set theory, graphs, basic matrix theory, a little numerical analysis doesnt hurt either - as well as complexity theory
Know your Language - get a book, read it, make notes for reference. Apress titles work well for C# http://www.amazon.com/Pro-2010-NET-Platform-Fifth/dp/1430225491/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281215548&sr=8-1 is good. Then read blogs and videos, learn to use the Redgate Reflector and MSDN help
Know your Tools - for C# this means Visual Studio 2010 - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/saraford/archive/2010/06/17/video-101-visual-studio-tips-in-55-minutes.aspx is a great way to learn. Also get a decent refactorer - ReSharper is my favorite but there are others.
Know your Ecosysyem - know what libraries are out there, learn how to use one or two of the best
Skills:
Know how to define a projct - no matter how good a programmer you are if you build the wrong thing you will have failed epically.
Know how to design - learn the theory on object orientated design - the Gang Of Four software patterns are classics and every coder should be aware of them.
Know how to document code - this is critical for long lasting code and for working well in a team. Write it, Document it, Test it => Resuse it
Know how to work in a team - work hard, play nice, communicate well.
Know which tool to use - get a feel for as many types of languages, actual languages, technologyies, libraries and so on as you can so that you know which to use in which situations
Know how to learn - from those around you, from the web, from documentation and most importantly from your own mistakes.
I'm sure others can add to these lists ;)
I personally got a great headstart on programming when I started on C++ about half a year ago. I'm about thirteen myself as well. C# is a lot like C++ (there are differences, though), so speaking from experience, I'd say yeah, that's a good language to start out with.
As for references, just grab some books at your local bookstore and start working your way through them. That's what I did. If you want to start with C++, I know for sure that there's an excellent reference called 'C++ for Dummies'. That's where I started.
Whichever language you decide to pick (nothing wrong with C#). Pickup a good book or resource, a few are mentioned here. Once you've done that, make sure to work the examples by hand and then at the computer to concrete them into your melon.
It may be totally obvious, but the more examples you can work, modify and make your own and see how they work, the quicker you'll pick up the language. IMHO this is how you really start to learn and have fun because you can start seeing things happen and begin to solve problems and gain context to issues you wouldn't have just reading...
It is an asset You have made a commitment to prgramming. It is usually advantageous to start from a keen understaning of Your working environment. Ask basic questions like what tools are already available to do Your daily assignments? Have as much fun as You can with them; and when they behave unusual, ask the why? Try finding solution to them on the net. Later on, perhaps You may want to enjoy basic html for sometime; and move all the way around c-sharp or anyother programming language; because at the end You- Yourself will figure out the link between a programmer and programming languages.
Hope it helps
I wouldn't pick C# purely as it isn't completely free and the full visual studio is very expensive.
Have a look at python, it forces you program properly in many ways whilst omitting some of the more annoying aspects of programming ({'s and ;'s).
If you do choose to learn python there is a free site with tutorials on how to make simple text based games. I used it to familiarize myself with the language before starting my current project.
link:
http://pythonbook.coffeeghost.net/book1/index.html
The most used languages are C and Java, according to Tiobe, so I'd almost say you should start there but esr has some good reasons for recommending Python as a first language.
C# is an excellent place to start. One thing I would suggest is think of something cool, but not too complex, that you would like to build the using some of the reference books other people have suggested in this thread go build it. Calculators are fun starting programs to build (Disclaimer: I am a math geek).
Having an ability to type fast using ten fingers is useful as you can do more and more exercises without causing your muscle tired quickly.
The first time I used computer, I just typed using my right index finger only and got tired fast ---typing become a nightmare !
If you have much time, you can start learning the following topics in order:
Computer architecture from hardware and software perspective.
C# (Deitel's C# book may be a good choice since it has much more details).
Any widely used language is a good place to start. Once you have done some useful projects in one language, it will be easier to pick up others because the logic is similar.
I suggest choosing based on what you want to do with it now. For example, let's say you are interested in making a few simple games while you learn (think frogger or maybe 1943 and keep the scope small). You can make 2D games pretty rapidly using an interpreted language like Python or Ruby (both have free game libraries available). With perhaps a little more work you can make them in Java or C, and have room to grow into heftier game features. Or you could make them in Objective-C and Cocoa, which would limit you to developing on a Mac, but open the possibility of distributing your games on the iPhone.
If you want to do business or finance applications, you can find a lot of support based on languages like C#, Visual Basic, Java, C, and the .NET framework (not a language, but applicable to enterprise software generally). It would also be a good idea to practice with SQL for interacting with databases (where business data like sales, customer names, or employee records are likely to be stored).
The most important thing to learning quickly is that you enjoy the projects you are working on, and are extremely interested. It will seem impossible to learn a language if you don't really want to do anything with it. On the other hand, you can be an amazingly good programmer in 6 months if you quickly start working on projects of interest, and are fanatical about solving the problems you set for yourself. Besides, you're 14 so you have the option of pushing your life and career in a direction that will give you both income and enjoyment in the work you do.
OK, is it just me or no one asked him the main question.
What do you exactly want to do ?
Do you want to play with hardware (ie have some board connected to a serial / parallel / USB port and have some LEDs flashing, have some sound coming out a speaker etc) or do you want to develop applications that have a nice user interface connecting to a database or even a game ?
Well, for number one, that will be assembly (ie for ARM SOCs) and C and that would require you to get familiar with hardware programming.
For number 2, I'd say C++/JAVA. I wouldn't recommand a language that is only supported by one OS (like C#) ...
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Ok here is my situation. I've studied Java in my college for 2 semesters. But you know they teach you jack in there, just the basics. We skipped half of our textbook and even then our professors don't teach from section to section of each chapter. I don't blame them. It's hard as it is for new students to understand even the basic concepts of programming. Now this is a community college we are talking about and not Stanford, MIT or Berkeley.
So like I said I've done 2 semester of Java. I really like our textbook because it has some challenging projects to do at the end of each chapter. This textbook is pretty clear and i have no problem understanding it (although 2-D and 3-D Arrays have given me some trouble). I have tried reading a few C# books such as Pro C# 2008 and .NET 3.5 and C# 4.0 in a Nutshell. I found these books to be dry and overloaded with information that put me to sleep (No offense to the authors of those 2 wonderful, according to amazon ratings, books).
Would you suggest I finish my Java textbook, brush up my knowledge of Arrays, Polymorphism, and etc that are universal to most programming languages. And then switch to C#, plus the syntax is very similar so it should be easy to switch. Or should I just start learning C# right now from the very beginning? If it's the latter then could you recommend some free online resources that will keep me engaged and at the same time teach me everything I need to know about C#.
Someone has recommended me to learn .NET first, but I found it to be not the brightest idea. .NET is just a big monster full of libraries. How am I going to apply it if I don't even know the C# or VB!? Anyway back to my question: Master Java and switch to C# or just go with C#?
DISCLAIMER: I don't want to start .NET vs J2EE or C# vs Java flame war. I am going with C#. I've decided that I want to work in a Microsoft shop in the future. .NET is what I want to learn.
Thanks! Will be waiting for the answers.
I found myself in pretty much the same situation as yourself whilst studying Java at community college - I am smiling right now :). That was 10 years ago and D flat, as some wags were calling it, was starting to make some noises.
What I did, was do all of my assignments in both C# and Java, so that I could get to grips with both. I then begged to do my final year project in C#, which they eventually relented on. Getting practice in a couple of languages and doing a major project will stand you in good stead.
I have never looked back. Good luck! :)
Both Java and C# concepts and syntax are very similar.
I would concentrate on the one you expect to use after completing your studies. Look at which is asked for more often in the area you are intending to work.
As a side note, C# 4.0 in a Nutshell is an excellent book both for learning and reference. Suggest you give it another go.
I think I found the answer to your question...in your question.
For now, go ahead and finish your Java book as a way of continuing to learn the fundamentals of OOP.
Next (or while finishing the Java book), shift your focus to C# and the .NET framework (in most business situations, you'll be hard-pressed to find one without the other).
If you want to focus more on language elements of C# rather than a specific framework (such as ASP.NET, Silverlight, Windows Forms, or WPF, to name a few things), you might consider a book on LINQ, such as LINQ in Action from Manning Press. Combine your knowledge of LINQ with trying to solve some problems at http://projecteuler.net and you should start picking up the language pretty quickly.
Personally, I read Illustrated C# 2008 by Daniel Solis. Granted, it's not a textbook filled with lots of fun and challenging examples, but it is a good exposition of the language.
Don't worry so much about any particular language, and "Teach yourself programming in 10 years": http://norvig.com/21-days.html
Since it sounds to me like you don't really know a lot about programming, and this is largely your first major exposure to it, I think it's absolutely in your best interest to stick with something until you have learned enough of it that you are satisfied with your skill level. Jumping now may hurt you later, because you will be covering a lot of concepts you probably already know.. but hidden inside will be something you don't, and thus you will skim right over it.
Keeping yourself "engaged" is only something you can do, not the text. Certainly some texts are more interesting than others, but you have to be committed to reading the material whether or not you find it boring. That's how you learn.
Both Java and C# are syntactically similar at the basic level, but they both diverge from there in different directions and do similar things in different ways. Further, the languages are largely useless without the base class library, and those are often very different between languages.
What you didn't mention was how you are doing in school. Does your school require you to do more java work? If so, then you will have to stick with it. If not, and you are "done" with it, then perhaps starting over with C# from the beginning would not be a bad idea. Just think of C# as a new language you have to learn from the ground up, even if much of it seems familiar.
I found the Wrox book series to be particularly good to learn from, along with the Head First book series. As for which one to continue I would say it depends on what you are tested on. If you have to do written exams and write out sample code. You don't particularly want to start banging out C# by accident.
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Is it possible to learn C# as your first computer language without any knowledge of the other three languages it combines?
I learned objective-c without knowing c first, but assuming I know nothing of C# or any other language is it possible to learn as a first language?
Yes. It's possible to learn C# as a first language.
It doesn't really "combine" other languages. It takes some inspiration from other languages, but doesn't use C or C++, etc, directly. C# is its own language, with its own syntax and rules.
You can learn ANY language as a first language.. Some are easier than others, and use different concepts. Personally, I think C# is a decent choice for a first language, since it has a good development environment, a great community, and is flexible enough to provide good growth and usage in almost any environment, but easy enough to not be overwhelming.
Yes.
....also (trying not to blow Microsoft's trumpet) Visual Studio is a very good IDE so that + the language will help any newbie get into the swing of things quite quickly
“It is practically impossible to teach
good programming style to students
that have had prior exposure to BASIC.
As potential programmers, they are
mentally mutilated beyond hope of
regeneration.” (E. W. Dijkstra)
IMHO, the importance of a first language is often overstated. E.g., people like to slag BASIC as a terrible first language. However, I was introduced to many fundamental concepts via BASIC (flow control, subroutines, etc.), as well as some more interesting things like:
direct access to and manipulation of memory via PEEK and POKE
self-modifying code! many cool things were done with this
optimizations such as storing data at the end of the code, which taught me a bit about how interpreters work
my first (and, oh, how I wish my last...) infinite loop (10 GOTO 10) - terrifying and beautiful at the same time!
That spurred interest in interrupts and soon I was doing assembly. Later I got into OO via JScript in classic ASP, and then more formally with C#.
I guess what I am saying is, is there is no one true language, and any of them is enough to open the door a crack, enough so you can see the big room filled with light beyond. So, yes, by all means, C#.
Many computer science curricula are using Java to introduce programming. C# is in many ways very similar to Java, so I would think a student could be pretty successful starting out with C#.
If your question is, "Is C# the best language to start out with?" then I think I'll leave that alone - the answer is going to be very subjective.
I learnt C# as my first "serious" language (I knew a bit of PHP and actionscript before, but nothing serious)
And while it wasn't horrible, I'd strongly recommend combining learning C# with learning C.
I learnt C# in school for 3 years, and then learnt C for a year, and came back to C# knowing how everything works MUCH better.
Especially recursion, arrays, pointers, etc. Just like assembler helped me understand C better.
To sum it up: It's not a horrible language to begin from, it's pretty noob friendly, but for deeper understading I'd learn C aswell.
You have to start somewhere. C# is as good a starting point as any.
Of course. C# does not combine languages!
It's a completely self-sufficient language that of course has roots/draws inspiration from Java, C and C++, but that does not mean you have to learn them.
Or do you need to learn Latin before you start learning Spanish?
Yes of course and IMHO it's a good choice.
Yes, C# is a perfectly valid language to learn first.
Yes it is a reasonable choice. Knowing the languages that came before it is interesting and useful, but is not a prerequisite.
See also http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=948843
It was my first, still using it 99% of the time today, 8 years later.
Certainly. But learn at least one other language too - it will make you a better programmer.
Yes, C# would be a fine first language. You can easily learn spanish/french/english without knowing latin.
C# is rather high level, so it will be easier to start with, and cuts out a lot of the crap you have to deal with with earlier languages (NOT because those langauges are bad! C# owes much of its beauty to its predecessors).
C# will also teach you Functional Programming early, which is becoming increasingly important in our industry as multi-threading becomes omnipresent.
Sure. One of the things that you learn about programming languages is that there isn't really that much difference between them. Once you learn one or two pretty well, you should be able to pick up others in a matter of hours or days - the syntax may change, but the concepts don't. What's challenging is getting the right mindset for programming in the first place and learning the API for getting things done with a particular platform and language.
C# is a perfectly good place to start because it maintains most of the features of more advanced languages while keeping away the most complex parts, and still allows you to develop full-featured GUI applications.
IMO, the ideal learning order should be:
A wide background on Math (strong arithmetics and algebra, good formal logic (a.k.a. Boolean algebra), and optionally some set theory).
A solid background on digital electronics.
A good background about hardware: what a computer has, what can it do, etc.
Machine code/Assembly, because it (machine code) is the only thing the machine really handles (and assembly is the only "sane" language close enough to it).
Some low-level language; probably C because of it's prominence at that level (does anyone build systems with something else than C/Assembly?). This includes going down to interfacing with your platform of choice (for example, building some GUI through the Win32 APIs).
Any OOP language, ideally C++ (because .Net languages and Java normally use intermediate bytecode).
A good interpreted language, like Perl or Python.
Anything you want.
While I really thing this is the best learning order (the knowledge acquired through that path always builds upon the preceding steps, and ends up covering most of the aspects relevant on modern computing), it'd be an utopia. I didn't follow that path (although I have dealt with most of the languages listed), and it's not practical to follow it on modern times: it may involve years of studying before you can take profit of your skills.
Recently, I started private classes on programming and I'm teaching maths (as needed), pseudo-code, and C#. Sincerely, I think C# is the sanest choice as the first language: it takes you quite early into nowadays' most used stuff: GUI, DB, Networking, etc, and it isn't as aberrational as alternatives like VB.
It would also be advisable to dive a bit on other languages spanning different paradigms, just to get a bigger picture about programming. I'd suggest Assembly (preferably on a virtualized system, because bad things happen) and Python or Perl.
Just my opinion.
Yes. The fact that it has syntactic roots in the C family of languages doesn't require you to know C, C++, Java or whatever: you can treat that as a historical curiosity.
Sure, just because it's like another language doesn't mean that you have to know the other language to learn C#.
Heads First C#
I'd go so far as to say that learning another language as a halfway step is more likely to leave you with bad habits than to reduce your C# learn time.
Start with Scheme ..that's what they teach in school first.
In my opinion may be it's possible to learn C# as your first programming language, but it's very difficult (I should say impossible) to learn programming using this language. Using any mainstream (may be it's better to say industrial or production) language. This languages are overloaded by different programming concepts, syntactically complex and has enough "dark places" to confuse newbies in programming...
And it's not only my opinion (of course). Take a look at what Niklaus Wirth thinks about it.
So you can choose another road and learn Component Pascal for example. The only problem on that way is the lack of books. It seems that this book is the only option.
Anyway, good luck!
I'm a C# convert and I freakin' love it when coupled with Visual Studio Intellisense and autocompletion. It's basically the nicest programming language/IDE combo.
I would say that C# is probably one of the best first languages as it teaches you some lower level, C-like programming but gives you an easier to use and manage object/memory platform.
It's a nice, clean language with good software and community support, and I wouldn't say it requires anything a beginner wouldn't have.
That said, I was faced with this question recently in helping a teenager learn to code. I decided in the end to steer him towards VB.Net instead; not because of any preference on his or my part - he didn't ask for anything specific, I use both - but I felt its increased verbosity was beneficial to a beginner. With less symbols and more words, I think most complete novices would find VB.Net a less intimidating starting point for no great difference in results.
Absolutely it is possible. I taught my son C# as his first programming language so that he could do a science fair project. He was 13 at the time.
I think C# makes a great first language for someone who will go into more serious programming or computer science. There has been a movement towards Python as a first language recently, and while I love Python, I think it's a poor choice for a first language because it lacks data abstraction. C# on the other hand, has excellent support for data abstraction (properties is one place where it shines compared to competitors like Java).
It also has a huge standard library behind it that enables beginners to write functional programs that do cool things early on (which is essential to keeping a beginner motivated).
After the student masters the basics of object-oriented programming, C# will also let them add other paradigms to their repertoire without having to learn a whole new language.
C# is a really good language to be learning first... However having learned C and VB .NET at first, in my opinion will give you significant boost :)
I think languages like: C, C++. Are the best languages for beginners - they help you understand how the system works - what is memory, how to use it, allocate, and so on. C# and its garbage collector allows you neglect this things.
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I am not the only programmer, but I'm the only .NET developer, everyone else works with Perl, Ext JS, and related technologies. I'm primarily self taught, using Codeproject heavily to learn new techniques.
Without any mentors at my company specifically knowledgeable in .NET, I'm unsure whether classes, or online tutorials, books, or perhaps some other avenue might be most effective at helping me to become a better developer.
My goal, optimistically, is to become a developer capable of managing the next .NET developer we hire, or at least to integrate well with him/her.
I'm currently taking on the task of documenting my programs in such a way as to receive review from the more experienced developers at my company regardless of them not knowing .NET, and I expect this will be rather general, but hopefully still beneficial.
Does anyone have suggestions or advice for how to most effectively learn good practices without direct oversight?
Without mentors around, there are several things you can do to improve your skills:
Take classes...especially if your employer will pay for them.
Read books. They're the next best thing to a class.
Read developer blogs. They may not teach you best practices, but they'll keep you abreast of what's new in the development world. That'll help you keep from falling behind.
Courtesy of the Community Listen to Podcasts (Hanselminutes, Stackoverflow, etc.) and watch Screencasts (Dimecasts has tons of good content).
Participate in the community. We may seem harsh at times, but you'll hear the most about best practices, coding techniques, design patterns, etc. and different ways to apply everything.
I have always worked like that. My ways to improve are:
Reading high-quality blogs
Applying what these high-quality blogs recommend (whenever it fits your project and when time allows, of course)
Reading high-quality open source project's source code
Writing as much code as you can, always keeping in mind what you've learned and always trying to raise the quality bar. Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect.
Keep an eye on stuff that's unrelated to your own line of work. For example, if your main job is coding ASP.NET in C#, read stuff about functional programming, F#, Haskell, other web frameworks like django, Ruby on Rails, etc. I'm not saying that you learn them, just see how things can be done differently. It will broaden your perspective.
When you gain some self-confidence: contribute to open source projects, write a blog.
About books: IMHO the books that are highly-technical (i.e. "Buzzword 2.0 in Action!") aren't worth your time. Everything happens so fast that they'll probably become obsolete 6 months after their release. The only books worth buying are those that deal with the underlying CS or architecture issues.
About classes: it's very hard to find high-quality non-university classes that aren't a waste of time/money. Most of the time you can learn faster by yourself. (UPDATE: fast-forward to 2013, MOOCs are an amazing, high-quality, free learning resource)
Also be wary of codeproject, there are lots of articles there with errors and/or general bad advice.
I am in the same situation you are in. I learn mostly from
previous projects/mistakes, especially when you take over an old project from someone else (50%)
google (25%)
forum/stackoverflow (25%)
Change employers. I'm not trying to be a jerk, seriously. The most growth your going to have as a developer is by working every day with someone significantly better than you.
Join some OSS project which works with .NET to get feedback on your code from experienced .NET developers. In addition looking at other people's code is a great way to learn new things - just as you have been doing. I also agree with Justin also that reading blogs like Eric Lippert's is very rewarding
Take advantage of the chance to learn the languages and technologies being used by by your colleagues.
They'll introduce you not just to syntax, but more importantly to techniques, idioms, and paradigms that you won't find in .Net, but that will challenge you to think about how you could apply or build those thing in .Net, or why .Net doesn't have or shouldn't use those things.
Why is Perl weakly typed (or is it)? What's Perl better at than .Net? What is .Net great at the Perl is just terrible at? Why do these differences exist? How might you implement a Perl interpreter in .Net? Why might you want to?
Why's everything in a JavaScript a hash? How does .Net class inheritance compare to JavaScript prototypes? Are JavaScript's first-class functions a great tool or a source of obscurantist abuse, compared to .Net's strongly and statically typed classes?
What are the fundamental data structures in each language? For each language, why are those types fundamental to that language? What were the different design decisions (or lack of decisions) that motivated and informed each language's design and implementation? Can you discern any common "ancestral" languages among the languages used at your workplace? Why don't we have "One Language To Rule Them All"? Should we?
Finally, excellence at any one language is really great to have, but unless you're sitting on that language's Standard Committee or writing compilers/interpreters for that language, a broader knowledge of the underlying algorithms and data structures and patterns that are common across languages is probably more important to your development as a programmer -- and certainly to managing programmers, if that's your goal.
Look for local .NET user groups. In most cities, you are likely to find at least one. User groups are a great place to develop contacts, ask questions about the technology and basically get answers to problems you may be experiencing. If there are no user groups in your area, try looking online.
If you are free to choose how you develop, and you get new projects fairly often, pick a new technology you're not familiar with to use on each project. Of course, do your research first and make sure it makes sense for the project.
At my last company, I was pretty free to use whatever I wanted as long as it made sense and worked. I always tried to use something new on each project. The last project I worked on, I used NHibernate. No one told me to learn NHibernate, but I took it upon myself to use it to expand my knowledge. Of course, I made sure NHibernate was acceptable first.
The best way to learn something is to use it. Classes and books are good, but nothing will make it stick more than using it in a real project.
My goal, optimistically, is to become
a developer capable of managing the
next .NET developer we hire ...
In that case, you should be looking to expand or improve your people/project management skills as well as developing your technical programming and design skills in your chosen technology.
I also subscribe to the view that it is not a good idea to focus too much on a particular technology; e.g. .NET. Too much specialization tends to limit your career prospects.
A year ago I was pretty much in the same boat and it's interesting when I look back at the things I wasn't so good at. Awareness of the technology you are using is an important one, many people have suggested reading books/blogs etc which are good.
One thing that may help you, is to look at the MCTS material, starting with a foundation exam (I'm working toward 70-536 .NET 2.0 Framework exam) to make sure you have a good base. One of the advantages of this is one that it is credited by Microsoft so you can add it to your CV for the future and it gives you a more structured approach than just reading books.
Secondly read up on design practises, or even design principles (such as Gang Of Four). Do your best to not cut corners, and develop your code in the best re-usable way. This keeps you thinking about design and maintainability which is extremely important.
Finally I'd probably suggest trying to ensure you're not doing the same thing over and over. Don't just work with databases, or UI's etc... Try to get a mixture of things to try new techniques and learn new stuff.
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I'm going to advise a company on a project soon, and I'm not too sure about what programming language I should advise.
It's a fairly straightforward (desktop based) application with a central datasource on the network, for storing and editing parts that make up a machine. The machine needs to be configured in the application, and with this configuration production documents (manuals, software, bill of material) are generated. (e.g. if part A and B are added to the configured machine, then variation X on chapter 5 of the manual has to be used, if that makes sense)
There's a few non-standard components like a tree with radio & checkboxes, and it has to have some sort of version control in it. It needs a WYSIWYG editor to edit chapters of manuals. It doesn't necessarily have to run on platforms other than Windows because it will only be used on the company network and everybody runs windows.
I was thinking Java because of it's huge numbers of useful libraries and free IDE's. I'm a Java programmer myself so I'm not very familiar with other programming languages. Any thoughts on what language I should use, and why? I believe there's a bit of VB/VBA and Delphi knowledge present in the company (it's not an IT company and I'm not likely to program it myself).
Thanks heaps!
From what your describe of your application and environment, nothing can beat Delphi!
It's the ideal case for Delphi to shine:
- native desktop application with fastest performances and development combined.
- plethora of excellent (often free) components; you'll probably find your tree
- extremely powerful yet simple for DB applications
- very active and helpful community
See also why I recommended it for another SO user.
I think if you have Delphi knowledge in your company : it is a very good choice for Desktop application and as avar says : you can find a lot's of good components here Torry's Delphi Pages.
I recommend this article
for desktop applications ( plus with database/win32 things) i'd recommend delphi. u can find many good components availabe .
You probably want to choose the language that your team has the most experience with. I personally am into Delphi, and it sounds like this might be a good choice for what you describe. Delphi is highly suited for Desktop apps talking to a database. However if your team (those writing and maintain the app) are more experienced with Java / C# / VB then you should go with that.
Well the scenario you describe is not very language specific, so
here are a few hints:
generally, java is absolutely ok but:
In a windows world, you can live easier with .net languages,
because of direct access to COM/activex for combining documentation snippets
in adobe or Word
since there's some vb knowledge about in the company, maybe the task of
maintaining the software becomes cheaper.
I would suggest c#, because via mono, you can go Linux where and if necessary.
well, that's my 2 cents.
Depends. On many things. What language are you familiar with? What database do you use (MS SQL has some advantages when used with a .NET language, but can also be used with java, or ...)?
The libraries are (at least for me) not a main decision point since there are a lot libraries for other languages too.
If you do not program yourself, ask the developer doing the job. Projects have other marks than technology such as time used and money spent. If you choose a language the developer is familiar with, it's more likely to be in time and in cost.
Your question is somehow far too open to give an exact answer. But maybe this helps you to think about it.
You should use whichever language is:
1) Most appropriate for the project
For example: If your project requires real-time processing, use a language that is conducive to performing that task.
2) You (and your team) is most comfortable with.
You would need to discuss with your team whether any languages that you currently know between you all are appropriate (keeping point 1 in mind). If none are appropriate, which language (with point 1 in mind) will all be most comfortable with in learning, developing and supporting (maintaining) throughout the life-time of your project.
This sounds like very curt advice, but I believe it's crucially important. If your project is to succeed, you need a language that you can "live" with, and will work with you rather than against you. If you were a wood-worker, you could use a hammer to put screws into a piece of wood, but wouldn't you be much more comfortable using a screwdriver?
Of the tagged languages, avoid asp.net as it's a desktop application. Other than that all the other languages would do a good job. It would come down to personal preference (more importantly the personal preference of the developer).
I'm a Java programmer myself so I'm
not very familiar with other
programming languages.
If you're going to write the software you should use Java. You're already familiar with it and your familiarity can help you delight your customer.
If you aren't writing it you need to find out who is and take their experience into consideration. Having them learn a new language just because you don't know what they are familiar with is not exactly a good way to go.
Java would work, C# would work (I would personally pic C#), it really just depends on the experience you have available.
What is this about the "non-standard" components? If there are 3rd party controls they want to use that might dictate the language/platform to work with. There are lots of free controls and examples in Java and C# as well and extending the standard Java / .NET controls might even work better that going with the 3rd party controls.
Sounds like you need to know more about the application and some other things that are out there before you can really be advising somebody else on what to do.
Well, there is a lot of wisdom with using what you know (Java).
However, just to counter the "because of it's huge numbers of useful libraries and free IDE's" - .NET also has a huge library base, and free IDEs (including the Express editions of Visual Studio). For .NET, C# would be a "closer" language to Java than VB.
I reckon you'll end up with Java, though (through familiarity - not always a bad thing).
When we build client side systems we use .Net (C# usually). We do Java on the back end, but it sounds like you may not have a traditional back end. For all the libraries and frameworks that are available for Java the vast majority of high quality UI components are in the .Net space these days.
When you are managing the development and someone else is doing the implementation and maintenance then I'd suggest to negotiate the programming language with them.
When you have to do the maintenance then focus on languages that you know.
If you do all/most of the work, just use what language you are familiar with, when you don't have enough time to learn a new language on the way. Especially if the application is important and needs to be pretty bug free. (although there is never a "last bug" as we all know) ;-)
The amount of 3rd party libraries is not a good criterion because this doesn't reflect their quality (maybe most stuff is crap) and many libraries means also a big chance to select the wrong one.
Don't forget to check if the chosen language is capable of doing the job. (Speed, platform constraints, memory footprint, ...)
I think it doesn't really matter that much in which programming language and environment you program, as long as you get to know it thoroughly. C++, Java and C# all have good libraries and all have their strengths and weaknesses. The important thing is that you know the peculiarities of the language, the development environment, the debugger, a good profiler, the standard libraries, the best third party libraries, etc... Moreover, after a while you can reuse your own code as well. For example, you mention an advanced tree widget. In our company, we have our own tree (in C++) which we can finetune as we like.
Currently I am developing in the .Net environment using C# but I want to know whether it is worth learning python. I'm thinking of learning the Django framework. What is better?
Yes, you should learn Python, but it has nothing to do with Python or C# being better. It is really about making you a better programmer.
Learning Python will give you a whole new perspective on programmer and how problems can be solved. It's like lifting weights, except you're building up the developer muscles in your mind.
For example, if you've only ever programmed using a statically typed language then it is hard to imagine any other way. Learning Python will teach you that there is an alternative in the form of dynamic typing.
For a summary of Pythons benefits:
http://www.cmswire.com/cms/enterprise-20/2007s-programming-language-of-the-year-is-002221.php
Personally I feel you can write good/bad code in any language. I also firmly believe in learning a new language every so often for the sake of learning itself. On those grounds I say if you have the time just go for it. Python is a great language that many others are inspired from.
Whether one framework or language is better or not depends on your definition of better. Do you want more work as a programmer? Do you want to develop business apps quickly, or do you want to compute 3D matrix transformations?
Once you've answered those questions you might find yourself taking a completely different direction, say F# if you had particular interest in the financial or scientific sector.
It can't hurt to learn Python, especially considering some of the heavy weights (Google) are really getting behind it.
As for the actual use, it all depends on the application. Use the best tool for the job.
Never stop learning!
That said, how can you compare the two? How good is Python support in .Net? Is there C# support in Google App Engine? It really depends what your target system is. Therefore, the more languages you have the better equipped you will be to tackle different challenges.
Depends on what you will use it for. If you're making enterprise Windows forms applications, I don't think switching to Python would be a good idea.
Also, it is possible to still use Python on the .NET CLR with IronPython.
What's better is inherently subjective. If you like Python's syntax - learn it. It will probably be harder to find a Python job, C# and .NET in general seem to be more popular, but this may change.
I also think it's worth to know at least one scripting language, even if your main job doesn't require it. Python is not a bad candidate.
Both are useful for different purposes. C# is a pretty good all-rounder, python's dynamic nature makes it more suitable for RAD experiences such as site building.
I don't think your career will suffer if you were competant in both. To get going with Python consider an IDE with Python support such as Eclipse+PyDev or ActiveIDE's Komodo. (I found a subscription to Safari Bookshelf online really invaluable too!)
I have been thinking about this same question myself. I believe however there is still a lot of stuff C# can offer that I want to get good at before I job into Python. Because Python is easier to learn it. One advantage I have found in languages is not the language itself but the materials available to learning them. For example let's say you could make a 3D game in JavaScript, but you would be more likely to find resources to do so in C++. Or you could make phone apps in PHP but C# or Java would have more material out there to help you with the phone apps. For me personally I know when I become good at programming in C# I will be able to branch off into other languages. This is the main reason I have chosen to devote most of my time to that one language. I also am learning a little bit of Java and C++ just practice thinking in other languages. I think in the future however Python will become more popular because coding is becoming more popular and Python is the easiest of mainstream languages right now.