Related to these questions:
How do I get the _real_ thread id in a CLR "friendly" way?
How often does a managed thread switch OS threads?
I would like to be able to actually test the Thread.BeginThreadAffinity() methods and verify how they work and that they work.
Is there some .NET functionality that will force an OS thread switch?
There is not much to test with Thread.BeginThreadAffinity(). I calls a function in the CLR host, IHostTaskManager::BeginThreadAffinity(). IHostTaskManager is an optional interface that a custom CLR host can implement to provide a custom thread implementation, one that doesn't necessarily use an operating system thread. The ICLRTaskManager and ICLRTask interfaces provide the core services for such a custom thread.
These interfaces were added in .NET 2.0, on request by the SQL Server team. SQL Server has had a custom threading option built in for a long time, based on fibers. Fibers were popular in the olden days when machines with multiple processor cores were still rare. Other names for a fiber are "green thread" and "co-routine". They've been put to pasture by the multi-core revolution in the previous decade.
The SQL Server project was a bust. They could not get it reliable enough and abandoned the project. Unfortunately we are left with the consequences, there is no simple way to map a .NET thread to an OS thread, the subject of your first link. As well as the considerable FUD shown in the accepted answer.
While the CLR still has the basic support for this feature, I do not know of a single example where a custom host implements its own threading. The massive failure of the SQL Server team project certainly was a major signpost that this is difficult to implement, considering the resources the team had access to to make this work. And it just doesn't make sense in general, mapping a single thread to a single processor core, as done by the operating system by default and used by the default CLR host, is incredibly hard to beat for efficiency. Processor cores are very cheap to buy these days.
Long story short: Thread.BeginThreadAffinity() does nothing. CLR threads are already affine to OS threads by default. The odds that you'll ever run into a custom CLR host where it does anything at all are sufficiently close to zero to ignore the method.
A simple way to invoke an OS thread context switch is by using one of the WaitHandle.WaitXxx() methods or Thread.Sleep() with a non-zero wait.
Related
Given that the familiar form of .NET is run on Windows, which is not a real-time O/S, and MONO runs on Linux (standard kernel is also not a real-time O/S).
Given also, that any memory allocation scheme offering garbage collection (as in "managed" .NET), and indeed any heap memory scheme will introduce non-deterministic, potentially non-trivial delays into an application's execution behavior.
Is there any combination of alternate host O/S and coding paradigm in which one can leverage all of the power and conveniences of C# .NET while implementing a solution which can execute designated portions of code within tightly specified time constraints? e.g. start a C# method every 10ms to a tolerance of less than 1ms, with completion time determined only by the work performed in the method itself?
Obviously, the application would have to be carefully written; time-critical code would have to avoid memory allocations; the application would have to have completed all its memory allocation etc. work and have no other threads active once the hard real-time loop is started. Also, the host O/S would have to support real-time scheduling.
Is this possible within the .NET / MONO framework, or is it precluded by the design of the .NET runtime, framework, and O/Ss on which it (or compatible equivalent) is supported?
For example: is it possible to do reliable fine-grained (~1ms) machine control purely in C# with something like NETduino, or do they have limits or require alternate strategies for such applications?
Short Answer: No.
Longer answer: The closest you can get is running the .net Micro Framework directly on Hardware, but the TinyCLR still doesn't give you deterministic timings. Microsoft has Windows CE/Windows Embedded Compact as their real time offering, but even that is only real time for slower tasks (I believe somewhere in the range of 50 microseconds or more - not sure if that qualifies for Hard Real Time)
I do not know if it were technically possible to create a real-time c# implementation, but no one has done one and even .net native isn't made for that.
Can C# be used for hard real-time? Yes
When we talk about real-time it's most often (if not always) about robotics and IoT. And for that we almost always go with one of these options (forget Windows CE and Windows 10 IoT):
Microcontrollers (example: Arduino, RPi Pico, NodeMCU)
Linux based SBCs (example: Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone, Rock Pi)
Microcontrollers are by nature real-time. Basically the device will just run a loop forever (there are interrupts and multi-threading on some chips though). Top languages in this category are C/C++ and MicroPython. But C# can also be used:
Wilderness Labs (Netduino and Meadow F7)
.NET nanoframefork (several boards)
The second option (Linux based SBCs) is a bit more tricky. The OS has complete control over the hardware and it has a scheduler. That way many processes can be run on just one CPU. The OS itself has a lot of housekeeping as well.
Linux has a set of scheduling APIs that can be used to tell the OS that we want you to favor our process over others. And the OS will do its best to comply but no guarantees. This is usually called soft real-time. In .NET you can use the Process.PriorityClass to change your process's nice value. Depending on how busy the OS is and the amount of resources available (CPUs and memory) you might get satisfying results.
Other than that, Linux also provides hard real-time capabilities with the PREEMT_RT patch, and there is also a feature that you can isolate a CPU core for your selected processes. But to my knowledge .NET does not have any API to use these capabilities (P/Invoke may work).
I read some segments about window thread pool. It looks like CLR thread pool.
CLR is based on Windows, so CLR thread is based on windows thread pool, is it right?
I know that each .net process has one thread pool, what's the situation in windows thread pool? The OS has one thread pool or many?
In C#, can developer control the window thread pool by code?
It is one of those CLR implementation questions that doesn't have a straight answer. It is not up to the CLR to determine how the ThreadPool is implemented. It is the job of the CLR host. A layer of software that integrates the CLR with the operating system. The core interface that the CLR uses to get thread-pooly things done is IHostThreadPoolManager. It is an unmanaged COM interface but you'll have little trouble recognizing the almost one-to-one mapping with ThreadPool class members.
There are many implementations of the CLR host. The more recognizable ones are the default CLR host for desktop apps, implemented by mscoree.dll. There are different versions of it for different Windows versions. And ASP.NET, Sql Server, the Visual Studio Hosting process, the custom host for Silverlight, Windows Phone, XBox. And the less recognizable ones, large unmanaged apps can host the CLR themselves in order to support scripting implemented in a .NET language. CAD programs like AutoCAD etc are standard examples.
The core notion of a thread is virtualized in the CLR. IClrTask and IClrTaskManager are the hosting interfaces for that. Which allows a host to implement a thread on something else than an operating system thread. Like a fiber. Nobody actually does this btw.
Sure, Windows has its own api for a threadpool. The CreateThreadPool() winapi function gets that ball rolling. However, poking around the mscor*.dll files on my machine with dumpbin.exe /imports, I do not see it being used. At least part of the problem might be that CreateThreadPool() is a later winapi function, available only since Vista. XP and earlier Windows versions had a much simpler implementation. So, no, at least for the desktop version of .NET 4.5.2, the Windows threadpool does not appear to be relevant.
We have a very high performance multitasking, near real-time C# application. This performance was achieved primarily by implementing cooperative multitasking in-house with a home grown scheduler. This is often called micro-threads. In this system all the tasks communicate with other tasks via queues.
The specific problem that we have seems to only be solvable via first class continuations which C# does not support.
Specifically the problem arises in 2 cases dealing with queues. Whenever any particular task performs some work before placing an item on a queue. What if the queue is full?
Conversely, a different task may do some work and then need to take an item off of a queue. What if that queue is empty?
We have solved this in 90% of the cases by linking queues to tasks to avoid tasks getting invoked if any of their outbound queues are full or inbound queue is empty.
Furthermore certain tasks were converted into state machines so they can handle if a queue is full/empty and continue without waiting.
The real problem arises in a few edge cases where it is impractical to do either of those solutions. The idea in that scenario would be to save the stack state at the point and switch to a different task so that it can do the work and subsequently retry the waiting task whenever it is able to continue.
In the past, we attempted to have the waiting task call back into the schedule (recursively) to allow the other tasks to and later retry the waiting task. However, that led to too many "deadlock" situations.
There was an example somewhere of a custom CLR host to make the .NET threads actually operate as "fibers" which essentially allows switching stack state between threads. But now I can't seem to find any sample code for that. Plus it seems that will take some significant complexity to get it right.
Does anyone have any other creative ideas how to switch between tasks efficiently and avoid the above problems?
Are there any other CLR hosts that offer this, commercial or otherwise? Is there any add-on native library that can offer some form of continuations for C#?
There is the C# 5 CTP, which performs a continuation-passing-style transformation over methods declared with the new async keyword, and continuation-passing based calls when using the await keyword.
This is not actually a new CLR feature but rather a set of directives for the compiler to perform the CPS transformation over your code and a handful of library routines for manipulating and scheduling continuations. Activation records for async methods are placed on the heap instead of the stack, so they're not tied to a specific thread.
Nope, not going to work. C# (and even IL) is too complex language to perform such transformations (CPS) in a general way. The best you can get is what C# 5 will offer. That said, you will probably not be able to break/resume with higher order loops/iterations, which is really want you want from general purpose reifiable continuations.
Fiber mode was removed from v2 of the CLR because of issues under stress, see:
Fiber mode is gone...
Fibers and the CLR
Question to the CLR experts : fiber mode support in hosting
To my knowledge fiber support has not yet bee re-added, although from reading the above articles it may be added again (however the fact that nothing has mentioned for 6-7 years on the topic makes me believe that its unlikely).
FYI fiber support was intended to be a way for existing applications that use fibers (such as SQL Server) to host the CLR in a way that allows them to maximise performance, not as a method to allow .Net applications to create hundereds of threads - in short fibers are not a magic bullet solution to your problem, however if you have an application that uses fibers an wishes to host the CLR then the managed hosting APIs do provide the means for the CLR to "work nicely" with your application. A good source of information on this would be the managed hosting API documentation, or to look into how SQL Server hosts the CLR, of which there are several highly informative articles around.
Also take a quick read of Threads, fibers, stacks and address space.
Actually, we decided on a direction to go with this. We're using the Observer pattern with Message Passsing. We built a home grown library to handle all communication between "Agents" which are similar to an Erlang process. Later we will consider using AppDomains to even better separate Agents from each other. Design ideas were borrowed from the Erlang programming language which has extremely reliable mult-core and distributed processing.
The solution to your problem is to use lock-free algorithms allowing for system wide progress of at least one task. You need to use inline assembler that is CPU dependent to make sure that you atomic CAS (compare-and-swap). Wikipedia has an article as well as patterns described the the book by Douglas Schmidt called "Pattern-Oriented Software Architecture, Patterns for Concurrent and Networked Objects". It is not immediately clear to me how you will do that under the dotnet framework.
Other way of solving your problem is using the publish-subscriber pattern or possible thread pools.
Hope this was helpful?
Greetings!
I've searched for compiler (csc.exe) options at MSDN and I found an answer here, at Stackoverflow, about compiling with multiple processors. But my problem is about compiling for multiple processors, as follows.
The university where I'm graduating has a 11 machine cluster (which has 6 quad-cores and 5 four-core bi-processed machines). It runs under linux, but I can install MONO there. And instead of compiling with multiple processors or cores, I want to compile for multiple processors machine. So:
Is there any particular detail on how to do it or the CLR on that system should handle the execution to spread it across the cores?
If there's a way to do this, how can I do it with VS2010 or with csc.exe command line compiler?
Thanks in advance and I'm sorry if this question makes no sense. I really don't know how to handle multiple cores, as I'm a mere physicist, not a computer scientist! :)
You don't need to compile any differently to take account of multiple cores. You need to write your code differently though, to use multiple threads. If you can use classes from .NET 4 in your environment (a recent version of Mono should support this) you can use the Task Parallel Library which makes this a bit easier.
Basically you don't get concurrency for free - you have to think about which bits of your code can sensibly run in parallel. You might want to read the output of the Patterns and Practices group for parallel programming. (The book is a very good starting point.)
Your supposition is correct; your question makes no sense.
It is not possible to magically parallelize arbitrary code; you need to modify the code to use multiple threads.
You can use explicitly multiple cores in C# by using the Thread or ThreadPool classes, or by using Parallel LINQ or the TPL.
There is no special compiler involved.
The CLR, by default, will not do anything special to spread the work out across multiple cores. YOU, in developing the application, are responsible for making the best use of your machine's resources. The .NET Framework does have several libraries and technologies that make multithreaded operations simple to implement: look up the Thread class, Delegate.BeginInvoke/EndInvoke, and the Task Parallel Library.
Since it is a cluster, you have to rely on some form of a message-passing parallelism, no compiler will transform your code automatically. At least, a good old MPI is supported: http://osl.iu.edu/research/mpi.net/
The answer to your question comes in the form of two seemingly-contradictory statements:
1: It already does
and
2: You can't
Modern operating systems and, thus, development environments, use threads. A thread, fundamentally, represents a single series of sequential steps (and words that don't start with "S") that the processor will execute. These threads are managed by the operating system and by the processor architecture, wherein the processor will execute some portion (or all) of a thread, save its state, then switch to another thread.
In the presence of multiple cores (whether by multi-core processors or simply multiple processors or both), it's actually possible for the computer to execute two threads at the same time, assuming that they read and write different locations in memory (threads that utilize the same resources require synchronization, which is a complex ballgame inside this one), by distributing threads across cores.
At the risk of using an overly simplistic simile, think of it this way: your code, as it stands right now, is just a very long list of steps to execute to accomplish a particular task. You've now taken this list of instructions into a room full of people (each representing a processing core), and you'd like to use each of these people as efficiently as possible. While a room full of PhD students might have the context and subject-matter knowledge to figure out how to break out your instructions into tasks for each individual person, you've taken your list to a room full of people who are excellent at following directions but entirely stupid when it comes to deduction. In this case, you need to bring a different set of instructions for each person that when all of them are executed, you end up with the same result.
Put simply, in order to have your code take advantage of multiple cores or processors, you have to break your work down into small, preferably atomic chunks of code. The specific method that you use to break up your code into multiple threads can vary; using System.Threading.ThreadPool or the more recently introduced Task Parallel Library can make some of these things easier, though there's always a tradeoff (as with everything) in either efficiency or control.
Going into much more detail than that would require looking at your actual code. You'd do better finding someone with experience writing solid, performant multithreaded code (if possible, someone with recent .NET experience doing this, as this will help make the determination about which libraries would be appropriate).
Learning about threading is fascinating no doubt and there are some really good resources to do that. But, my question is threading applied explicitly either as part of design or development in real-world applications.
I have worked on some extensively used and well-architected .NET apps in C# but found no trace of explicit usage.Is there no real need due to this being managed by CLR or is there any specific reason?
Also, any example of threading coded in widely used .NET apps. in Codelplex or Gooogle Code are also welcome.
The simplest place to use threading is performing a long operation in a GUI while keeping the UI responsive.
If you perform the operation on the UI thread, the entire GUI will freeze until it finishes. (Because it won't run a message loop)
By executing it on a background thread, the UI will remain responsive.
The BackgroundWorker class is very useful here.
is threading applied explicitly either as part of design or development in real-world applications.
In order to take full advantage of modern, multi-core systems, threading must be part of the design from the start. While it's fairly easy (especially in .NET 4) to find small portions of code to thread, to get real scalability, you need to design your algorithms to handle being threaded, preferably at a "high level" in your code. The earlier this is done in the design phases, the easier it is to properly build threading into an application.
Is there no real need due to this being managed by CLR or is there any specific reason?
There is definitely a need. Threading doesn't come for free - it must be added in by the developer. The main reason this isn't found very often, especially in open source code, is really more a matter of difficulty. Even using .NET 4, properly designing algorithms to thread in a scalable, safe manner is difficult.
That entirely depends on the application.
For a client app that ever needs to do any significant work (or perform other potentially long-running tasks, such as making web service calls) I'd expect background threads to be used. This could be achieved via BackgroundWorker, explicit use of the thread pool, explicit use of Parallel Extensions, or creating new threads explicitly.
Web services and web applications are somewhat less likely to create their own threads, in my experience. You're more likely to effectively treat each request as having a separate thread (even if ASP.NET moves it around internally) and perform everything synchronously. Of course there are web applications which either execute asynchronously or start threads for other reasons - but I'd say this comes up less often than in client apps.
Definitely a +1 on the Parallel Extensions to .NET. Microsoft has done some great work here to improve the ThreadPool. You used to have one global queue which handled all tasks, even if they were spawned from a worker thread. Now they have a lock-free global queue and local queues for each worker thread. That's a very nice improvement.
I'm not as big a fan of things like Parallel.For, Parallel.Foreach, and Parallel.Invoke (regions), as I believe they should be pure language extensions rather than class libraries. Obviously, I understand why we have this intermediate step, but it's inevitable for C# to gain language improvements for concurrency and it's equally inevitable that we'll have to go back and change our code to take advantage of it :-)
Overall, if you're looking at building concurrent apps in .NET, you owe it to yourself to research the heck out of the Parallel Extensions. I also think, given that this is a pretty nascent effort from Microsoft, you should be very vocal about what works for you and what doesn't, independent of what you perceive your own skill level to be with concurrency. Microsoft is definitely listening, but I don't think there are that many people yet using the Parallel Extensions. I was at VSLive Redmond yesterday and watched a session on this topic and continue to be impressed with the team working on this.
Disclosure: I used to be the Marketing Director for Visual Studio and am now at a startup called Corensic where we're building tools to detect bugs in concurrent apps.
Most real-world usages of threading I've seen is to simply avoid blocking - UI, network, database calls, etc.
You might see it in use as BeginXXX and EndXXX method pairs, delegate.BeginInvoke calls, Control.Invoke calls.
Some systems I've seen, where threading would be a boon, actually use the isolation principle to achieve multiple "threads", in other words, split the work down into completely unrelated chunks and process them all independently of each other - "multi-threading" (or many-core utilisation) is automagically achieved by simply running all the processes at once.
I think it's fair to say you find a lot of stock-and-trade applications (data presentation) largely do not require massive parallisation, nor are they always able to be architected to be suitable for it. The examples I've seen are all very specific problems. This may attribute to why you've not seen any noticable implementations of it.
The question of whether to make use of an explicit threading implementation is normally a design consideration as others have mentioned here. Trying to implement concurrency as an afterthought usually requires a lot of radical and wholesale changes.
Keep in mind that simply throwing threads into an application doesn't inherently increase performance or speed, given that there is a cost in managing each thread, and also perhaps some memory overhead (not to mention, debugging it can be fun).
From my experience, the most common place to implement a threading design has been in Windows Services (background applications) and on applications which have had use case scenarios where a volume of work could be easily split up into smaller parcels of work (and handed off to threads to complete asynchronously).
As for examples, you could check out the Microsoft Robotics Studio (as far as I know there's a free version now) - it comes with an redistributable (I can't find it as a standalone download) of the Concurrency and Coordination Runtime, there's some coverage of it on Microsoft's Channel 9.
As mentioned by others the Parallel Extensions team (blog is here) have done some great work with thread safety and parallel execution and you can find some samples/examples on the MSDN Code site.
Threading is used in all sorts of scenarios, anything network based depends on threading, whether explicit (sockets stuff) or implicit (web services). Threading keeps UI responsive. And windows services having multiple parallel runs doing the same things in processing data working through queues that need to be processed.
Those are just the most common ones I've seen.
Most answers reference long-running tasks in a GUI application. Another very common usage scenario in my experience is Producer/Consumer queues. We have many utility applications that have to perform web requests etc. often to large number of endpoints. We use producer/consumer threading pattern (usually by integrating a custom thread pool) to allow high parallelization of these tasks.
In fact, at this very moment I am checking up on an application that uploads a 200MB file to 200 different FTP locations. We use SmartThreadPool and run up to around 50 uploads in parallel, which allows the whole batch to complete in under one hour (as opposed to over 50 hours were it all uploads to happen consecutively - so in our usage we find almost straight linear improvements in time).
As modern day programmers we love abstractions so we use threads by calling Async methods or BeginInvoke and by using things like BackgroundWorker or PFX in .Net 4.
Yet sometimes there is a need to do the threading yourself. For Example in a web app I built I have a mail queue that I add to from within the app and there is a background thread that sends the emails. If the thread notices that the queue is filling up faster that it is sending it creates another thread if it then sees that that thread is idle it kills it. This can be done with a higher level abstraction I guess but i did it manually.
I can't resist the edge case - in some applications where either a high degree of operational certainty must be achieved or a high degree of operational uncertainty must be tolerated, then threads and processes are considered from initial architecture design all the way through end delivery
Case 1 - for systems that must achieve extremely high levels of operational reliability, three completely separate subsystems using three different mechanisms may be used in a voting architecture - Spawn 3 threads/proceses across each of the voters, wait for them to conclude/die/be killed, and proceed IFF they all say the same thing - example - complex avionic susystems
Case 2 - for systems that must deal with a high degree of operational uncertainty - do the same thing, but once something/anything gets back to you, kill off the stragglers and go forth with the best answer you got - example - complex intraday trading algorithms endeavoring to destroy the business that employ them :-)